Author Topic: A Second Chance  (Read 3672 times)

Offline danisthirty

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A Second Chance
« on: March 04, 2016, 09:57:15 AM »
I received Inns & Cathedrals and Traders & Builders for Carc 2.0 today. The new artwork doesn’t bother me and the fact that this seems to be the way things are going now was all the motivation I needed to buy these (and the fact that I was placing a huge Amazon order and have been meaning to get them for ages anyway).

One thing that occurred to me about these though, and something that I didn’t see pointed out when I read through some of our discussion over this when news of Carc 2.0 first broke, is that a new start for Carcassonne allows people to become Carc 2.0 collectors in a way that wasn’t really possible with classic Carc unless they spent a small fortune on eBay and/or were very lucky in tracking down some of the rarer items. The fact that the likes of Cathars, Tunnels and Crop Circles are so hard to find has always been a bit of a downer for some classic Carc fans who knew they were never going to be “complete”, even before Carc 2.0 came along.

I dare say that whoever’s still here (at CarcC) in ten years time will excitedly recall when the Spiel 14/ 15/ 16/ etc tiles were simply given away at Essen rather than being bought on eBay for £100 some years later. Whilst it seems inevitable that Carc 2.0 will eventually end up back in the same place as classic Carc in terms of difficulty of getting hold of rare promos and expansions, it feels like we have a second chance at the moment, like we’ve gone back in time, and can actually buy some of the stuff that will end up being rare and expensive while it’s still available for generally sane/ affordable prices.

Even if I’m wrong about this, I intend to make the most of the opportunity anyway as I know I’ll regret it if I don’t! What do you think?


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2506.0

Offline jungleboy

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2016, 10:50:26 AM »
A couple of thoughts from me:

- While it's certainly annoying to pay high prices for rare expansions, it also increases the 'collectability' of the game. So I've tried to have fun with this aspect of my Carcassonne fandom and have prized those rare expansions when I finally got them. Part of the appeal of having a complete collection is the process of having to find all of the different things - if you could order every single expansion from one place with just one order, then it would be a less satisfying way to complete your collection. Of course, buying 20 copies of the Cathars in 2004 would have also been nice.

- It seems to me as though if HiG doesn't want to repeat the Carc 1 experience with hard to get expansions, they don't have to. They will have learned from those experiences (especially Cathars) and surely could ensure that they always have the ability to reprint any expansion and sell it on Cundco if it becomes difficult to obtain anywhere else. Or does it benefit them somehow to have hard-to-get expansions floating around on ebay and BGG?

Offline Valheru

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2016, 11:09:54 AM »
Mixed feelings about this, Dan. I'm fairly new to Carcassonne (started in September) so I'm in the middle of a change-up, going from old to new.

Being new has consequences: Almost on a daily basis, I come across new official and unofficial expansions/tiles because of this forum. Some I want (like The Fest, which arrived today), some seem not that interesting (like The Catapult). I consider myself a functional completionist. Everything I can use in a game and adds to gameplay, I'll buy. But does that mean, I want to do the same with 2.0? No, not really.

First of all because of the artwork. Opinions in the kickstarter-thread showed me that a lot of people consider the visual aspect of a game very important. I agree, and I really don't like the new one. Therefore I'm not really tempted to start all over again with a game that I know already, enjoy already and feel that my collection is almost complete. The economic business aspect of the creators annoys me, but it's understandable from their point of view. That's just how it works

Secondly, it's the thrill of the search! I found Cathars + fliers yesterday and struck a 'bargain' deal today. They'll be on the post on monday. I do not consider them essential to my collection, but I know that there is a community where people are looking for this small expansion. I also know that this particular one would have never been found by non-native Dutch speakers. So I'm doing this for the community as well, seeing all these likeminded people enjoying their passion. The more the merrier ofc, even with the new version but I feel there will always be a big difference between 2.0 and original.

Not being complete is pure psychological. Of course, I'm tempted as well to buy stuff that's actually way overprized but that's a line you have to draw yourself.

My third point is that I think a lot of people who will play Carcassonne 2.0, just the same as with the original, will play maybe one, two or three expansions. It's the small niche market that wants everything that drives the prices up. This will happen soon enough again, and is there coming a 3.0 after that? Hard to say but probably so! Again, all market-driven reactions. And the Spiel-tiles are going for ridiculous prizes (in my opinion) already, so that will become only worse in the future.

So agreed on the new chance and a possibility for the game/community to become bigger but I feel there will still be a difference between the original and 2.0. and the quest for collecting it. Don't want to sound elitist at all, just the thrill of the search is something that adds to the original game. And because of that, I'm fairly sure I won't regret not buying 2.0. or new expansions. Chances are they will be unofficially ported to the original version as well.

"In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming..."

Offline Rosco

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2016, 11:19:36 AM »
For me, the standard expansions are of no interest ATM! But any new mini expansion will be sought out and bought immediately.  Once I have a selection of 2.0 tiles, I may start buying the base game and standard expansions but I dont like the design and it will only be to be able to play a consistent game without the putrid looking mix or tiles and colours.
Just lay the damn tile!

Offline Valheru

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 11:21:39 AM »
For me, the standard expansions are of no interest ATM! But any new mini expansion will be sought out and bought immediately.  Once I have a selection of 2.0 tiles, I may start buying the base game and standard expansions but I dont like the design and it will only be to be able to play a consistent game without the putrid looking mix or tiles and colours.

That's the thing I wonder: are you buying them because they're new additions or are you buying them because you know that they will become rare eventually? No offence meant, just curious!

Offline Rosco

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 11:26:24 AM »
A little of both.  I like to have a complete collect but I also like to be able to make back what was spent so I may for example buy 3, one for me, one to sell cheap/give away and a third to try to sell for a nice profit.  Therefore I am satisfying all aspects

Offline Valheru

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 11:33:13 AM »
A little of both.  I like to have a complete collect but I also like to be able to make back what was spent so I may for example buy 3, one for me, one to sell cheap/give away and a third to try to sell for a nice profit.  Therefore I am satisfying all aspects

I understand that completely, but that's exactly the beginning of the situation that Dan spoke of with collecting something and new people coming in a few years later who want everything as well. It's like some sort of shortage is created because of passionate collectors. I feel it's just a normal market mechanism and therefore almost unavoidable. So Carc 2.0 seems to go the same way in the future, and then you can question why they started remaking it in the first place.

It's the same with a cd that came out in 1976 and remastered in 2016. It's fun to have the new one as well, but the spirit of time and workmanship feels different in the new version. And I think a lot of collectors of ANYTHING will agree..

The second point made by Jungleboy is an interesting one though!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 04:36:53 PM by Valheru »

Offline SRBO

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 01:03:37 PM »
A couple of thoughts from me:

- While it's certainly annoying to pay high prices for rare expansions, it also increases the 'collectability' of the game. So I've tried to have fun with this aspect of my Carcassonne fandom and have prized those rare expansions when I finally got them. Part of the appeal of having a complete collection is the process of having to find all of the different things - if you could order every single expansion from one place with just one order, then it would be a less satisfying way to complete your collection. Of course, buying 20 copies of the Cathars in 2004 would have also been nice.

- It seems to me as though if HiG doesn't want to repeat the Carc 1 experience with hard to get expansions, they don't have to. They will have learned from those experiences (especially Cathars) and surely could ensure that they always have the ability to reprint any expansion and sell it on Cundco if it becomes difficult to obtain anywhere else. Or does it benefit them somehow to have hard-to-get expansions floating around on ebay and BGG?

You say it yourself. The benefit they have is in your first point.
I totally agree on you on the first point!

Offline danisthirty

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Re: A Second Chance
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2016, 04:05:21 PM »
Sorry for posing this question and then not getting involved in any of the discussion that followed!

The thrill of the chase is a good point. It's not something I've ever enjoyed particularly as I caught up the majority of my collection on eBay where the thrill of the chase is replaced by whoever's prepared to throw the most money at something. If I'm prepared to outbid everyone else then I win - hooray! - but this is rarely the case depending on who else is bidding. It doesn't feel so much like an achievement to me, just a matter of finances.

On the other hand, if I find something for sale that I know could fetch a lot more if it was found by the right person/ people then I usually feel bad about buying it, even if I'm also annoyed that the seller doesn't necessarily deserve to make such a huge profit on certain things if they are found by the right people. But now I'm going off topic a bit. Just elaborating on the whole "finding is fun" thing as it isn't always, and it isn't for everyone either.

Final point though, the pride you feel for owning certain things will likely rise or fall depending on how difficult it is to get those things in the present day. My feeling is that some things, especially the Essen promo tiles, are only going to increase in value (since they give them away each year, it can't exactly go down!) so levels of enjoyment stemming from simply owning a complete set of these will also rise. At present, there's only two to collect (unless you include the 16 and 17 tiles they accidentally gave away ::)) but I think these, and other early printings of certain expansions, may end up being highly sought-after in years to come. Possibly.

I don't expect everyone else to agree with me (although it's clear that many don't!), it was just something to think about really... O:-)


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