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CAR 7.5 Prep Discussion: The Junction Problem

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I don't think labyrinths should be involved in this issue as a labyrinth is practically a new feature in the game with its own rules (with the ability of connecting the 4 roads).


--- Quote from: Just a Bill on February 20, 2018, 02:31:02 PM ---But there is no such special rule for roundabouts. You had to invent it out of thin air, and it's not intuitive. One would think if there were such a rule, then A&M and Catapult would state it; but they don't. The RGG and ZMG English rules for A&M don't give any special gameplay definition, or even use a special term like "roundabout." They just seem to observe that the tile works the way iyou would think due to its open junctions. The RGG Catapult rules (the only ones I can find in English) don't even reference that tile at all.

--- End quote ---

Indeed, they don't use the term "roundabout" but nevertheless it IS a roundabout, and it is stated in the rules that it doesn't separate the roads. I don't know why they chose this solution (but it seems that they did) and yes, as a game designer you can find it inappropriate.

On another note, I recall kettlefish told us that they look at the tiles for the German Cathedrals and remarked that some bushes were needed to prevent a single road lopping round a lot of the cathedrals.  If you're able to find the sneak-peak version of the tiles you may be able to see how the change was applied.  It's good to see the publisher made clear what constitutes a junction on later tiles (then forget again for the Labyrinth).

I'm not particularly happy with the concept of a junction.  When two roads meet, there could be a junction, thus all roads could have an infinite number of junctions on them.  Some roads are continuous and a second road joins onto it.  They doesn't constitute a 3-way junction; ie the ending of 3 roads.  I find the bushes provide a focal point for the road connection.

The second edition rules are worth looking at too.  They actually define a road closure as: "The end of a road is closed when it meets a village, a city, a monastery, or it loops onto itself by meeting the other end."  But then forgot this for Inns and Cathedrals Expansion (FRRR).

Finally, it may be worth including the first edition CRCR tile from Inns and Cathedrals, this was quickly modified to include a bush when the watermarks were added.


--- Quote from: Leven on February 20, 2018, 04:11:00 PM ---I don't think labyrinths should be involved in this issue as a labyrinth is practically a new feature in the game with its own rules (with the ability of connecting the 4 roads).

--- End quote ---

I concur on this.

Thanks for the clarification on the rest.

For my part i'll stay with "What you see is what you get", open junctions are connecting roads. I really don't know what it would imply in a tournament but for a "fun" game, it's enough with me.

I appreciate Bill's in-depth analysis here, but for the sake of brevity, am I right in saying that what this whole debate basically comes down to is the CC1 tile, which should be open according to the way it's presented artistically but is closed according to the rules?

If that's all it is, wouldn't it be enough to simply note this oddity in the CAR and move on rather than to try to make sweeping philosophical judgements about what constitutes open and closed junctions and the like?

If it's about more than that, then ignore me and continue debating.


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