Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => General => Topic started by: danisthirty on November 17, 2016, 08:00:49 AM
-
Hi all,
Even though I recently handed over my competition organising responsibilities to MrNumbers, I'm already toying with the idea of a much more long-term Carcassonne league as we haven't done anything with just the basic tiles for a long time and it could be run in parallel with any other competitions that are being run at the same time.
Whilst I'm aware that basic Carcassonne can lack the thrill and excitement of Carcassonne + expansions for some people (myself excluded), all of our major competitions since the 2014 league have involved expansions in some capacity. Considering that all national competitions and the world championships use just the basic 72 tiles, I wanted to provide an opportunity for the purists among us (as well as those who simply want to brush up on their core skills) to benefit from the wealth of experience and different styles of play demonstrated by the community of online players here at CarcC, and to see how they compare against some of our top players.
Here is a quick overview of the rules as I see it working:
1. All league participants will get to play two basic games against everyone else in the league. So assuming there are 30 participants, everyone will play 58 games split across 29 rounds where each round consists of two games against a single opponent. As stated above, no expansions will be used at any stage of the competition.
2. The league will be "paced", by which I mean that fixtures for each round (who is playing who) will be announced only when the previous round has completed. Rounds will last for up to two weeks or until all games in the round have been played, and any games that have not been played by the end of the round will be forfeited (this is how our 2014 league was run albeit with a slightly different scoring system).
3. The league will be a long-term commitment; if 26 (or more) players sign up to take part there will be at least 25 rounds. With each round lasting 2 weeks, this is already 50 weeks/ almost a year. With this in mind, taking part in the league won't exclude you from any other competitions and it won't delay or hold any other competitions up either, as you'll be able to play in this alongside anything else that is taking place.
4. Every match that you play will include a Home game (you place the first tile) and an Away game (your opponent places the first tile).
5. Overall rank in the league will be determined by number of games won, then games drawn, then PD (points difference).
Keen to hear any feedback from people who would be keen to sign up to something like this, or if you have any suggestions for modifying the format?
Thanks,
Dan
-
5. Overall rank in the league will be determined by number of games won, then games drawn, then PD (points difference).
I would rather suggest giving the usual points (2 for winning and 1 for a draw) after the games played.
In my opinion 27 victories + 3 draws is worth more than 28 victories and 2 defeats.
By the way, I'm in. :)
(Though I'm a bit afraid that this kind of championship will never get to the end...)
-
5. Overall rank in the league will be determined by number of games won, then games drawn, then PD (points difference).
I would rather suggest giving the usual points (2 for winning and 1 for a draw) after the games played.
In my opinion 27 victories + 3 draws is worth more than 28 victories and 2 defeats.
Good point. I agree! :(y)
(Though I'm a bit afraid that this kind of championship will never get to the end...)
I think the fact that each round will have a hard end date should help to ensure that things keep moving in the right direction, even if it takes a long time to complete. That's my intention anyway.
-
I like the idea a league with only the base game. But I don't think it would be useful to play a league for around a year. And with possible 30 participants - all the people can't go to holiday from CarcC - how should this work?
The x-score list is not fine to "read" - my thoughts are to play in smaller groups (5 participants = 6 groupsor 6 participants in 5 groups)
The league will get so many rounds that all player are possible to play against each other in total.
But this time the first who finish their group will play with the first of the other groups...
-
But this time the first who finish their group will play with the first of the other groups...
Theoretically, there may be a tie in who finishes the first. ;)
-
And with possible 30 participants - all the people can't go to holiday from CarcC - how should this work?
Actually I would be highly surprised if there would be 30 participants considering that neither the current the world cup nor our recent leagues had such a high attendance.
-
Why not just provide a list of all games for each person with a play by date beside each game. If someone completes all their games early then good for them.
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
-
I am in btw
Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
-
Very good idea. I'm in!
-
Hi all,
Good luck with the league!
I will opt out for a few reasons which I can summarise by saying that I am not nearly as obsessed with Carcassonne as I once was and in any case I prefer shorter competitions with expansions rather than longer ones with just the base game. Also, next year I will be all over the place so I might not be as available as I have been in the past.
-
Thanks for the comments and feedback everyone. Here are some of my own thoughts/ justifications for why I've suggested the proposed format:
Paced Rounds
Most of the competitions we've run this year (and last) have suffered from a similar problem whereby some people rush through all their games and get them played as quickly as possible, and others don't. Whilst waiting for everyone to catch up can be frustrating, I've often felt like there is too much of an emphasis on getting things over and done with as quickly as possible which isn't really the point. The difference with this league is that everyone will have a fair chance to play everyone else without demonising the slower/ busier players unless they fail to play a single match within the two week timeframe. If this happens they will be penalised with a loss by default, but then the slate is wiped clean and we all move on to the next round.
Furthermore, I want everyone to progress at the same rate as the competition unfolds more gradually this way, with everyone taking an equal interest in the most recent match results and what effect they have on the overall standings as we go. It isn't especially easy to describe, but there's more of a “closeness” between competitors this way as we're all participating together rather than doing our own thing individually.
Single Group
Whilst I've always tried to arrange groups as evenly as possible in our previous competitions, there's usually at least one group that seems to have more than its fair share of highly-skilled players compared to other groups. And even after nine competitions, there are still plenty of other regular players who I've only played once or twice, or in some cases never at all. The idea of there being one big group means that nobody has an easier route to the top (or the bottom) than anyone else because everyone gets to play against everyone. And whilst I won't suggest that this is the only solution to the problems with the group system described above, I am suggesting that it could be fun and a bit different to hold a competition which isn't focussed on speed of completion. What's more, more games means more experience and fun, which can only be a good thing!
Holidays
With a time frame of two weeks per round, someone going on holiday could quite feasibly play one match at the start of a round and their next towards the end of the following round (depending on their opponent's availability) and still have three and a half weeks off in between. That seems quite reasonable to me, but if players are away for prolonged periods during which they don't have access to a laptop there's always the possibility of playing via the Android or iOS apps.
I will opt out for a few reasons which I can summarise by saying that I am not nearly as obsessed with Carcassonne as I once was and in any case I prefer shorter competitions with expansions rather than longer ones with just the base game. Also, next year I will be all over the place so I might not be as available as I have been in the past.
It won't be the same without you JB... :(
-
The paced nature and hard deadlines are rules that should be applied to all future competitions.
I'm in.
-
It goes without saying - I am in! :red-meeple:
-
Me too, I'm in. I like the idea of playing against so many competitors (before I get knocked out)
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
-
Me too, I'm in. I like the idea of playing against so many competitors (before I get knocked out)
No knocking out Rich so you'll be in it until the end!
Players so far:
- Dan
- Leven
- Rosco
- Jéré
- Halfling
- MrNumbers
- Rich_The_Fish
-
Here is an example for a possible double x-score list for league matches:
Some of the formulas still need an update.
-
Sounds good, I'm in. I like the idea with paced rounds. A quick basic game should always be possible.
-
Is anyone else interested in this? There are less participants than I was expecting but it's certainly still enough to go ahead with...
- Dan
- Leven
- Rosco
- Jéré
- Halfling
- MrNumbers
- Rich_The_Fish
- Adrornalin
- kettlefish
- Hounk
- glh510
- Merlin_89
- khalidqasrawi
- maedac
- TheSteveAllen
- What If?
Plan is to leave it open for new entries until the end of next week and then look to kick things off on the week beginning 23rd January.
-
I will play this tournament too.
Our double x-score list has space for 16 players which I have created. But when we are only 9 participants, then I will create a smaller double x-sore list.
-
I will play this tournament too.
Excellent, what a nice surprise! Welcome aboard kettlefish... 8)
-
Haven't seen this thread before, must be more frequent in forum again. Although I'm a little sceptical regarding the paced rounds, I'm in. :green-meeple: :black1-meeple:
-
Welcome aboard Hounk!
If you have any concerns over how the paced rounds may or may not work then please feel free to share. After all, the whole point of the paced rounds is to resolve some of the existing problems rather than introduce new ones! ;)
-
Well, I'm just a little concerned, that it might either slow down the tournament further, or somebody has to be penalized, because (s)he couldn't held an appointment. Also how do you want to forfeit unplayed games? Both players get zero points? Because otherwise it might be hard to tell, who takes the blame for the game not to be played.
But I do agree, that without pacing the League might be shifting, and the positioning vague during playing it out, so just let's try it the way, you suggested.
-
Sounds fun so count me in :-)
-
I'm back... I hope, it's not too late to join, otherwise... I'm in!
Dan, I love your idea with this League. Base is ENOUGH! ;D
-
I'm back... I hope, it's not too late to join, otherwise... I'm in!
Excellent! Wellcome back to the forums Merlin! :) :(y) :(y) :(y)
Dan, I love your idea with this League. Base is ENOUGH! ;D
Thanks. Hopefully it will be quite good practice for those of us who will be heading off to our national championships this year too!
I'm also adding khalidqasrawi to the list as he has asked to be signed up via PM.
-
I won't participate this time, since I'm unable to commit to regular dates for matches at the moment. Wish all of you lots of fun!
-
Are the games played online? If so, please count me in. I'm a rather new Carcassonne player (a month at most), and a newly registered forum user (just today). Please explain basics our direct me to instructions. ... and count me on if this is online.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
They are played (for the most part) online using JCloisterzone (http://jcloisterzone.com/en/), although other options, like playing face to face on the table, phone apps or other online implementations can be used, if possible and both players agree.
-
Hi Maedic!
Welcome to Carcassonne Central!
A note for any newcomers to the forum: It's worth looking at your notification options so you receive emails for all updates on a thread. Otherwise you may only receive one notification until you next visit the forum and may miss important announcements.
You can change your settings here:
(http://www.tehill.net/carcassonne/general/NotificationsRecommendations.png)
I would recommend reading a post from the last Welcome Tournament - which explains how to use the Chatroom and how to get started with ZCloisterzone:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2737.msg40930#msg40930
The League is a little different to the Welcome Tournament, so some rules may/will change, but it should be enough to get a good idea!
-
I am the same as Maedac, a newbie who has just joined this forum. I would like to take part but I need to investigate JCloisterZone, as I have only used the Carcassonne app on iPhone, and MacBook. All help would be welcome.
-
Welcome to Carcassonne Central Maedac and TheSteveAllen. And welcome to the league too! The best place to start is with JCloisterZone so download that and make sure you can run it first (it's PC and Mac compatable but you do need to be running Java so may have to download that first). Once you're up and running play a gew games against the AI opponent(s) to get used to the AI. There are about 20 different expansions included and it's all free but as mentioned in this post we will be sticking to base game only for this league. Please post here if you have any problems or difficulties with the above but let us know how you get on all the same! :) :(y)
-
Thanks for the welcome Dan. I use Ubuntu, but I don't think that I will encounter any problems, as I think that it is written in Javascript. Will let you know how I get on.
-
I use a ChromeOS at home (I'm mostly sure I won't be able to run JCloisterzone there); I use a Windows PC for work, however, due to admin restrictions, I'm not sure I will be able to install correct Java version needed and/or download/run the jar executable there. Will let you know shortly. Any other options you can think of? Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Should run on Ubuntu no problems. I would have thought it would run on ChromeOS too as Java runs on pretty much everything. I'm no expert though. Good luck guys!
-
Dan,
I think it would be useful to list on which platform/software participants are able/willing to play? We agree that JCZ would be the default software used but we could also indicate other preferences. For instance, next to my name you could put iOS too so that another participant using iOS would know we could use that platform to play our games.
Something like this: Jéré (JCZ, iOS)... or anything else you could think of. Timezones are also good to know.
-
I use a ChromeOS at home (I'm mostly sure I won't be able to run JCloisterzone there); I use a Windows PC for work, however, due to admin restrictions, I'm not sure I will be able to install correct Java version needed and/or download/run the jar executable there. Will let you know shortly. Any other options you can think of? Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not sure if the Java Runtime (JVM) is available on ChromeOS, this website seems to say it is possible to install it. It's not something I've tried though - http://www.meetchrome.com/java-on-chromebook/
-
Should run on Ubuntu no problems. I would have thought it would run on ChromeOS too as Java runs on pretty much everything. I'm no expert though. Good luck guys!
Just to let anyone know that uses Linux OS, JCZ runs perfectly in Ubuntu once Iced Tea has been installed. Any problems, let me know and I will see if I can help.
-
I think it would be useful to list on which platform/software participants are able/willing to play? We agree that JCZ would be the default software used but we could also indicate other preferences. For instance, next to my name you could put iOS too so that another participant using iOS would know we could use that platform to play our games.
Thanks Jere, good idea. Will do.
Should run on Ubuntu no problems. I would have thought it would run on ChromeOS too as Java runs on pretty much everything. I'm no expert though. Good luck guys!
Just to let anyone know that uses Linux OS, JCZ runs perfectly in Ubuntu once Iced Tea has been installed. Any problems, let me know and I will see if I can help.
Well done for getting yourself up and running so quickly TheSteveAllen. I enjoyed those two games last night :) :(y)
-
maedac is playing on Android (Carcassone app by Exozet) and JCloisterZone (it did work!). Time zone is UTC/GMT-6.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Is this likely to be going ahead, as I seem to recall that it was billed to start next week? I hope so, as I am looking forward to playing against a human and not an AI count or warlock! :D
-
How many do we have so far?
-
How many do we have so far?
This many. (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2969.msg45734#msg45734)
-
How many do we have so far?
This many. (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2969.msg45734#msg45734)
When does the party start then Dan?
-
How many do we have so far?
This many. (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2969.msg45734#msg45734)
When does the party start then Dan?
Soon. There needs to be an even number of players though, otherwise someone will be sitting out each round. If I can just grab one more person we should be good to go.
-
Oh, late night games? I´m in!
-
Oh, late night games? I´m in!
Awesome. Welcome to the party What If? 8)
EDIT: This topic is now locked as we have 16 players. I will create a new post with more specific instructions in the dedicated forum and will post a link to it here when it has been created. Good luck everyone!
-
The competition is now live!
From now on, please refer to this post (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3108.msg46053#msg46053) for updates as the competition progresses!
Good luck everyone! :) :(y)