Author Topic: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions  (Read 5116 times)

Offline danisthirty

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Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« on: October 14, 2013, 03:38:20 AM »
Hi all,

I have a couple of questions regarding how the rules of certain expansions work under exceptional circumstances as described below...

1) When playing with the Mage & Witch expansion, if you place one of the tiles with the Mage & Witch symbol on it such that it completes a feature, are you allowed to add the Mage/ Witch to that feature immediately before scoring it? Just to clarify the question: if I had an incomplete city and require just one tile to complete it, and then I draw the necessary tile but it has a Mage & Witch symbol on it, can I use it to complete the city AND add the Mage into the city to get a points bonus from it at the same time?

(as far as I can tell it looks from the CAR like you can, but I just wanted to check in case I'm misinterpreting it)

2) Also, am I able to use my phantom to claim points when I've otherwise run out of standard followers? I know that normally it's placed in addition and secondarily to a standard follower (or builder, pig etc I guess) but just wondered if it can still be used when none of these are available?

Thanks!
Dan

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=490.0

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 04:34:58 AM »
1) No, you can't.  German rules:
Quote
Er setzt eine der Figuren auf  einen  beliebigen  Strassenabschnitt  einer  unfertigen
Strasse  oder  auf  ein  beliebiges  Stadtteil  einer  unfertigen Stadt.
The player places the mage or witch on a segment of an incomplete road or incomplete city.

2) Yes, you can use the phantom as the first and only follower to place.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 04:36:57 AM by Fritz_Spinne »

Offline danisthirty

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Re: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 08:28:42 AM »
Thanks for the response Fritz_Spinne  :)

Those rules seem clear enough! To get to the gist of my misunderstanding though, it's worth remembering that under the standard rules you're not allowed to place a follower on any complete feature. But if the tile you're placing completes a feature (and it's unclaimed) then you can still take the points for it at the same time. With this in mind, I checked the CAR for any difference between this and the placement of the Mage/ Witch but couldn't find anything to suggest that it wasn't allowed...

Offline Carcking

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Re: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 11:01:42 AM »
The next paragraph in the rules offers some additional clarity:

"One of the magical figures must be placed or moved when a mage tile is placed. If it is
not possible to place or move the mage or witch figure (because there are no unfinished
cities or roads
), the player must remove either the mage or witch from the board, if at
least one is on a tile."

This paragraph does not make allowance for moving the Mage or Witch to the just completed feature, so it is clear that placing the Mage or Witch in a finished feature is not an option.
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 01:13:35 PM »
... To get to the gist of my misunderstanding though, it's worth remembering that under the standard rules you're not allowed to place a follower on any complete feature. But if the tile you're placing completes a feature (and it's unclaimed) then you can still take the points for it at the same time. With this in mind, I checked the CAR for any difference between this and the placement of the Mage/ Witch but couldn't find anything to suggest that it wasn't allowed...
The Mage and the Witch are not followers. They are neutral figures with special rules.

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 12:17:13 AM »
Thanks for the response Fritz_Spinne  :)

Those rules seem clear enough! To get to the gist of my misunderstanding though, it's worth remembering that under the standard rules you're not allowed to place a follower on any complete feature. But if the tile you're placing completes a feature (and it's unclaimed) then you can still take the points for it at the same time. With this in mind, I checked the CAR for any difference between this and the placement of the Mage/ Witch but couldn't find anything to suggest that it wasn't allowed...

I had the same question about another Mini - Flier (can't find it now), and with the same arguments as yours. As a result - note 373 came up, with the same answer - completed=forbidden.
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline danisthirty

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Re: Mage & Witch, and Phantom questions
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 09:20:50 AM »
Hello again. Thank you very much to everyone who responded!

I suspected the answer to my first question would be no as I played it like this recently (wrongly) and it didn't feel right. So I thought I'd better check. As always, my first port of call was the CAR but I couldn't find any obvious clarification there and unusually the Order of Play section didn't satisfy my curiosity either.

Apologies if this seemed like a stupid question to be posting in the first place considering how clear the rules appear to be, but I seem to be naturally inclined to find ambiguity in most things and the parallels between this and claiming a feature with a normal follower as the feature is completed were too much for me to ignore!

Thanks again,
Dan


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