Author Topic: Can you get Message when you get negative points?  (Read 74 times)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« on: August 04, 2022, 09:48:37 AM »
I know that there was discussion in past about new HiG clarification about messages, that you can by C2 rules get only one message by miniexpansion Mini 2 Messages.


And there was also, that you can't get message, when your meeple or messenger on scoring board moved to dark area (points 0,5,10,...45) for example by payment of ramsom when exchange meeple trapped by Tower.


So in Slovak Mindok Bix Box 2021 is rules somethinkg like this: Active player, and only active player, will get exactly 1 message, in the moment, when after adding points one of active player figures (meaning on scoring board as meeple and messenger) ended on dark field (5,10...)


So just paying some points for ramsom (Tower, Barber-Surgeons, Vodyanoy) is not adding points.
But when you combine some payment and some earning you can get message, but only in situation, that meeple or messenger will be moved forward to higher score when ending on dark field.


Example 1 - To get message:
Meeple on 24, Messenger 43
1. Payment 3 points for Ramdom by Tower - Meeple moved to 21
2. Finish 2 points for road - Messenger moved from 43 to 45
Even that final score if this turn is -1 point, messenger was moved forward by scoring of feature - you will get message


Example 2 - To not get message:
Meeple on 23, Messenger 42

1. Payment 3 points for Ramdom by Tower - Meeple moved to 20
2. Finish 2 points for road - Messenger moved from 42 to 44
Player will not get message, even that meeple is placed on dark field - 20, because he was moved backward and only addition of points was done by messenger.


Why in example 2 player will not get message?
Because rules said. In the moment when after adding one of the figure ended on dark field.
So in our example meeple is already placed at 20, so it is not ending on 20 again.
If we will consider to accept this. You will be able to get every turn points when you eart at leas 1 point, moved with messenger and meeple kept on 0 dark field for whole game.

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Offline DIN0

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Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2022, 11:48:06 AM »
The figure which ends up on the dark space has to do so by gaining points, not loosing them. This was always the case. In the example, the figure which ended up on the 20 did so by substracting points, so no message.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2022, 02:20:46 PM »
The figure which ends up on the dark space has to do so by gaining points, not loosing them. This was always the case. In the example, the figure which ended up on the 20 did so by substracting points, so no message.

Question was, that message is reward to earn points. So also in first example was negative balance of points before turn and in time when resolve question to get or not to get message :D

Online Meepledrone

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Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 05:27:16 AM »
This seemed more clear in C1, since negative points happened outside any round of scoring. In this case, negative scorings could never trigger a message.

However, the clarifications provided for C2 indicate that there is only one round of scoring that would combine in 3. Scoring a feature all the scorings happening during one player's turn. Exception given: the 1-point fairy bonus at the beginning if the active player's turn (Why this? :o).

This simplification leads to a new set of open issues I could not get a proper answer from HiG. One of them is how to deal with negative points and messages, since this could lead to different scenarios when combining scoring negative and positive points during a turn. All in all, the big question is this: when the active player lands on a dark space, is the order of the points scored when positive and negative points have to be combined? Should scoring +5 points and then -3 points lead to the same result as -3 points followed by +5 points if in both cases you ended on the same dark space on the scoreboard?

The conclusion of a previous discussion suggested that the order positive and negative points should be irrelevant, and we should only consider the total balance of points scored by the active player during this turn. Only positive balances would trigger a message.

If scoring +5 points and -3 points represents a total blanace of +2 points, which would trigger a message for the active player. On the other hand, if the active player scores +3 points and -4 points and ends up on a dark space, no message would be triggered, since the total balance would be -1 point.

Any comments on this matter?
« Last Edit: Today at 05:29:54 AM by Meepledrone »
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