Author Topic: The Robber insta-rogue points  (Read 275 times)

Offline PapaGeek

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The Robber insta-rogue points
« on: July 28, 2022, 06:35:07 AM »
The WikiCarPedia page for The Robbers is not specific on normal meeple placement.

1.   Draw a tile with a Robber logo.

2.   Place or move your personal Robber on the scoreboard next to another player’s scoring figure. (You cannot place it on your own scoring figure).

3.   Going around the board in order, the next player who’s Robber is not on the scoreboard yet places their Robber on the scoreboard. (This happens only one time, not once for each player).

The “Placing a meeple” section of the Wiki page only says “The figures in this expansion are not placed on the standard land tiles as part of the game.”  It does not say that you can also place a normal meeple and/or Phantom on the robber land tile.

It then goes into “Scoring a feature”, again only talks about how the Robber is scored.

I have two questions:

1.   I assume that after placing up to two Robbers on the scorecard, you can then place your normal meeple and or Phantom on the Robber Tile. Is that correct?

2.   Also, if the placement of the Robber Tile also completes a feature for another player, since the Robber placement happens in phase 2 of your turn and feature scoring happens in phase 3, are you allowed to place your Robber on that player’s scoring figure so that you can immediately receive your rogue points?


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Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2022, 09:34:17 AM »
Well. Usually all rules from basic game are valid if rules of expansion don't say something else.
So it just say extra rule to not place robber figure to regular tiles.
Check JCloisterZone Add-ons with fan expansions and also some Slovak sci/fi projects in English https://www.scifi.sk/en/

Online Meepledrone

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2022, 10:15:18 AM »
The WikiCarPedia page for The Robbers is not specific on normal meeple placement.

1.   Draw a tile with a Robber logo.

2.   Place or move your personal Robber on the scoreboard next to another player’s scoring figure. (You cannot place it on your own scoring figure).

3.   Going around the board in order, the next player who’s Robber is not on the scoreboard yet places their Robber on the scoreboard. (This happens only one time, not once for each player).

The “Placing a meeple” section of the Wiki page only says “The figures in this expansion are not placed on the standard land tiles as part of the game.”  It does not say that you can also place a normal meeple and/or Phantom on the robber land tile.

It then goes into “Scoring a feature”, again only talks about how the Robber is scored.

I have two questions:

1.   I assume that after placing up to two Robbers on the scorecard, you can then place your normal meeple and or Phantom on the Robber Tile. Is that correct?

It is correct. I added the default rules to pahse 2. Placing a meeple to remove any possible confusion


2.   Also, if the placement of the Robber Tile also completes a feature for another player, since the Robber placement happens in phase 2 of your turn and feature scoring happens in phase 3, are you allowed to place your Robber on that player’s scoring figure so that you can immediately receive your rogue points?

It is allowed, since the rules do not include any limitation in this regard. You are just a lucky guy!

I also added a clarification box to cover this case.

Thanks for your remarks and your questions. ^-^
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 10:28:38 AM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2022, 03:42:11 AM »
Thank you for the feedback so far.  We will be playing our first “The Robber” expansion with our personal Center Scoreboard expansion this weekend, and I do have just one more question!



In this example, Green will score 8 points for a City and 2 points for a Road.  Since the first 8 point movement of the Green scoring figure places it on the same point space as Red’s Robber, does this force Red to score just 1 rogue point for Green’s 2 point Road and also removes the Red Robber from the scoreboard?

That is the way I read the rules, just checking with the authorities before we play the game!

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2022, 06:41:18 AM »
Here is the image you linked in your post but cannot be displayed on some browsers due to security settings (HTTP image within an HTTPS page).

« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 06:42:52 AM by Meepledrone »

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2022, 06:46:45 AM »
Thank you for the feedback so far.  We will be playing our first “The Robber” expansion with our personal Center Scoreboard expansion this weekend, and I do have just one more question!



In this example, Green will score 8 points for a City and 2 points for a Road.  Since the first 8 point movement of the Green scoring figure places it on the same point space as Red’s Robber, does this force Red to score just 1 rogue point for Green’s 2 point Road and also removes the Red Robber from the scoreboard?

That is the way I read the rules, just checking with the authorities before we play the game!

Yes, this scenario is correct. Green could also score the road first and the city afterwards and ignore the red robber altogether.

Would you like to add a clarification to WICA about this case? What would you like to clarify?

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2022, 08:29:09 AM »
In the current bullet point list for Additional rules under Scoring a feature . . .

● If given the opportunity, your robber must steal points. You cannot wait for a later feature that might be worth more points. [6]

6. Each scoring event is separate from all others – each feature is scored individually. The robber must take points only from the first allowable event – single feature points, fairy point, catapult points, Wheel of Fortune points, etc.

● If your robber is on the same space as more than one meeple, and more than one of them is scoring points the same turn, you may choose which one to steal from. [7] [8] [9] [10]

7. If a single scoring figure moves multiple times due to scoring of more than one feature with placement of a single tile, the player receiving the points chooses the order that points are awarded. If there is a robber beside that figure, the owner of the robber would thus receive half the points of only the first feature that is scored. Of course, if multiple figures on the same space receive points, the robber’s owner can still choose which figure to steal points from. (5/2013, 11/2014)

Maybe there could be another bullet point, something like:

● If a single scoring figure moves multiple times due to scoring of more than one feature with placement of a single tile, each movement is considered a separate scoring event.

Or, there could be an example 4 with an image similar to the one I provided.

Example 4: Green plays a tile that completes one of his Cities and also one of his Roads. Green receives 8 points for the City and 2 points for the Road and moves the Green scoring figure in that order. Both moves are considered individual scoring events. The first 8 point move places the Green scoring figure on the same space as the Red Robber, then the second 2 point move must be used by the Red Robber to score 1 rogue point. Note: if Yellow also scored points due to the new tile placement, Red would have a choice of rogue point movement based on whatever Yellow scored or the Red 2 point Road.

Basically, what I would like to add, as a bullet point, footnote, or example would be something like:

Whenever a scoring figure moves for multiple completed features in a single turn, each movement of the scoring figure is considered a separate scoring event for the Robbers. The player that is scoring multiple feature chooses the order in which the separate events occur.

Offline davide

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2022, 04:06:28 PM »
7. If a single scoring figure moves multiple times due to scoring of more than one feature with placement of a single tile, the player receiving the points chooses the order that points are awarded. If there is a robber beside that figure, the owner of the robber would thus receive half the points of only the first feature that is scored. Of course, if multiple figures on the same space receive points, the robber’s owner can still choose which figure to steal points from. (5/2013
  I have a doubt,is the robber that choose wich point will score,correct?

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2022, 06:09:49 AM »
  I have a doubt,is the robber that choose wich point will score,correct?
If a player can score points for more than one feature on a given turn, the player gets to choose the order in which their scoring figure moves on the scoreboard. If a player’s Robber is on the scoreboard next to multiple other player’s scoring figures, and more than one of those scoring figures moves in a single turn, the Robber gets to choose which scoring figure it will steal rogue points from.

Let me also add this to the thread:

Our neighborhood group of 4 has been playing Carcassonne since June 2021 and we will literally be playing with the Robber expansion for the first time tomorrow.  This post was initially made to help to clarify the Robber rules for that game.

Most of the time, after a player places a tile, a single scoreboard figure can move.  The rules for also moving a Robber’s scoring figure a number of rogue points are relatively straight forward and simple to follow.

But, we have also played many games where the placement of a single tile completes multiple feature, some of which are occupied by multiple players, so we do need to come up with a proper set of rules to handle Robber movements in these situations.

Here is what might be considered the proper order for performing multiple interactive movements

Step 1: Determine how many points each player will receive from each completed feature.
Step 2: If any player will get points from multiple features, determine the order in which that player will move their scoring figure.
Step 3: Starting with the player who placed the tile, perform the scoring figure movements for each player in a clockwise order, keeping track of how many rogue points each player can receive.
Step 4: Starting with the player who placed the tile, perform the rogue point movements. If any player can receive multiple rogue point movements, each player must choose to move only one rogue point movement.
Step 5: If any Robbers were left behind by rogue movements, move them with their rogue scoring figure.



Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2022, 06:05:13 AM »
I have to add one more question to this thread, just want to be sure of the official rules before tonight’s game.

If the Red Robber is on the scorecard next to the Green and Blue scoring meeples, in a single turn, if neither Green nor Blue score any feature related points, but Blue scores 3 rogue points, can the Red Robber make the choice of staying with the Green scoring meeple, or is the Red Robber forced to move 3 spaces with the Blue rogue scoring Meeple?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 06:28:35 AM by PapaGeek »

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2022, 10:56:07 AM »
I have to add one more question to this thread, just want to be sure of the official rules before tonight’s game.

If the Red Robber is on the scorecard next to the Green and Blue scoring meeples, in a single turn, if neither Green nor Blue score any feature related points, but Blue scores 3 rogue points, can the Red Robber make the choice of staying with the Green scoring meeple, or is the Red Robber forced to move 3 spaces with the Blue rogue scoring Meeple?


The Red Robber is forced to move 3 spaces with the Blue rogue scoring Meeple. Please check footnote #9:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-9
Quote
9. If a robber is on the same space as scoring figures from 2 other players, and one of those figures scores points from robbing another player (rogue points) while the other player does not score anything, the robber must move with the figure rather than staying behind. (Bullet point 1 applies here, but bullet point 3 does not, as only 1 scoring figure is getting points.) (5/2014)

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Re: The Robber insta-rogue points
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2022, 11:57:00 AM »
  I have a doubt,is the robber that choose wich point will score,correct?
If a player can score points for more than one feature on a given turn, the player gets to choose the order in which their scoring figure moves on the scoreboard. If a player’s Robber is on the scoreboard next to multiple other player’s scoring figures, and more than one of those scoring figures moves in a single turn, the Robber gets to choose which scoring figure it will steal rogue points from.

Let me also add this to the thread:

Our neighborhood group of 4 has been playing Carcassonne since June 2021 and we will literally be playing with the Robber expansion for the first time tomorrow.  This post was initially made to help to clarify the Robber rules for that game.

Most of the time, after a player places a tile, a single scoreboard figure can move.  The rules for also moving a Robber’s scoring figure a number of rogue points are relatively straight forward and simple to follow.

But, we have also played many games where the placement of a single tile completes multiple feature, some of which are occupied by multiple players, so we do need to come up with a proper set of rules to handle Robber movements in these situations.

Here is what might be considered the proper order for performing multiple interactive movements

Step 1: Determine how many points each player will receive from each completed feature.
Step 2: If any player will get points from multiple features, determine the order in which that player will move their scoring figure.
Step 3: Starting with the player who placed the tile, perform the scoring figure movements for each player in a clockwise order, keeping track of how many rogue points each player can receive.
Step 4: Starting with the player who placed the tile, perform the rogue point movements. If any player can receive multiple rogue point movements, each player must choose to move only one rogue point movement.
Step 5: If any Robbers were left behind by rogue movements, move them with their rogue scoring figure.

In the end, you will have to organize complex scorings by rounds:
* First scoring per player + scoring from robbers affected
* Second scoring per player +  scoring from robbers affected
* Third scoring per player +  scoring from robbers affected
* ...

So you will need to plan ahead those complex scorings in order to evaluate features and bonuses beforehand and then organize scorings by rounds (points for features + points from robbers -rogue points-). Take into account that all scorings in a round are happening simultaneously, so the results should be the same no matter the player starting to note points on the scoreboard...

Something I always stress is that features and bonuses may have some dependencies during their evaluation (watchtowers and castles are two examples) but players are the ones deciding the order od their scorings in order to handle messages, robbers, the teacher and even when sending meeples to a bathhouse. Maybe you haven't covered all these expansions but mark my words when you try to integrate all of them in your gaming sessions.

Here you may find some discussions about all this opening the scope to other expansions and bonuses dealing with all the issues at hand... There are plenty of subtleties in this matter I always love to discuss:

https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4998.0

Happy to be discussing this topic again...  ^-^
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 12:03:14 PM by Meepledrone »


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