Clarification of rules (ringmasters) - with HiG - 27 01 2021

[Bumsakalaka]

Rather to not search ;-)

[Vital Pluymers]

Today we got the following clarification from Johannes (HiG) on the HiG Discord server.
[A2] No it's referring to everything. Otherwise you will run into problems (like the castle), because there are no 8 tiles surrounding it.  Same thing would apply to German monasteries.

Except for the castle and German Castle, there are no other cases for which it could lead to possible problems. The eight spaces around the tile are always easy to spot as circus tiles are always normal shaped rectangular tiles.

Regarding castles, there would be two options:
(i) Ringmasters on castles do not get any bonuses.
(ii) For ringmasters on bonuses, only circus tiles in the castles fief are triggering the bonus.
All problems would have been solved.

For German Castles, it is a little more complicated if you want to respect the eight spaces around the tile. Maybe an option would be to choose the left or right side from the double tile 

Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?

I will not play according to these rules. Ringmasters get bonuses for all completed features they are occupying. For castles I will apply option (ii).

[Bumsakalaka]

Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?

And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings.

Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one.

Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?

[Vital Pluymers]

Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?

And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings.

Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one.

Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?

True, no logic at all.
Anyhow, since we always play with a bag full of tiles, we never remove any monasteries anyway 

[corinthiens13]

Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?

And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings.

Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one.

Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?

I'd suggest that, when we use german/dutch/japanese monasteries by replacing base game tiles, then they become part of base game features as long as they are played as a base game feature.

So a ringmaster placed as a monk on a German monastery replacing base game tiles still gets his ringmaster bonus 

[Vital Pluymers]

Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?

And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings.

Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one.

Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?

I'd suggest that, when we use german/dutch/japanese monasteries by replacing base game tiles, then they become part of base game features as long as they are played as a base game feature.

So a ringmaster placed as a monk on a German monastery replacing base game tiles still gets his ringmaster bonus 

But not when you place the ringmaster on a similar abbey of Darmstadt monastery?
And not when you don't replace the base game monasteries by German monasteries?

Come on, corinthiens13, you have to admit that this really is not making any sense.

[corinthiens13]

I'd suggest that, when we use german/dutch/japanese monasteries by replacing base game tiles, then they become part of base game features as long as they are played as a base game feature.

So a ringmaster placed as a monk on a German monastery replacing base game tiles still gets his ringmaster bonus 

But not when you place the ringmaster on a similar abbey of Darmstadt monastery?

It is a shame, but no, according to those clarifications...

And not when you don't replace the base game monasteries by German monasteries?

It's a shame too, but then they are an expansion not part of the base game, so... 

But at least I think we can save something by considering the German monasteries are part of the base game if they replace base game monasteries, that's the least we can do 

[Vital Pluymers]

I'd suggest that, when we use german/dutch/japanese monasteries by replacing base game tiles, then they become part of base game features as long as they are played as a base game feature.

So a ringmaster placed as a monk on a German monastery replacing base game tiles still gets his ringmaster bonus 

But not when you place the ringmaster on a similar abbey of Darmstadt monastery?

It is a shame, but no, according to those clarifications...

And not when you don't replace the base game monasteries by German monasteries?

It's a shame too, but then they are an expansion not part of the base game, so... 

But at least I think we can save something by considering the German monasteries are part of the base game if they replace base game monasteries, that's the least we can do 

We can also revolt, a word you always like to use, and tell HiG that they are wrong and should consider a better and more consequent solution. You already have my support. And Meepledrone's 

[corinthiens13]

We can also revolt, a word you always like to use, and tell HiG that they are wrong and should consider a better and more consequent solution. You already have my support. And Meepledrone's 

 ) )

[NGC 54]

So it seems that the ringmaster only provides ringmaster points when placed on the following features:
- Roads
- Cities
- Monasteries
- Fields (even when scored due to a barn - only case admitted in the rules)

"- Monasteries" - even if they are placed on tiles from other expansions (without taking in consideration abbeys, shrines, Darmstadt churches, German monasteries)?

"There is a edge case mentioned for expansion 5 but not for 8." - "expansion 5"? The wagon uses similar rules?

I think that this clarification is how it is because this is the simplest way; no effort from HiG in explaining what happens with castles and German castles (the only 2 cases where there are less or more than 9 tiles).

[Vital Pluymers]

So it seems that the ringmaster only provides ringmaster points when placed on the following features:
- Roads
- Cities
- Monasteries
- Fields (even when scored due to a barn - only case admitted in the rules)

"- Monasteries" - even if they are placed on tiles from other expansions (without taking in consideration abbeys, shrines, Darmstadt churches, German monasteries)?

"There is a edge case mentioned for expansion 5 but not for 8." - "expansion 5"? The wagon uses similar rules?

I think that this clarification is how it is because this is the simplest way; no effort from HiG in explaining what happens with castles and German castles (the only 2 cases where there are less or more than 9 tiles).

You're right. German Castles needs an extra clarification too.

[Bumsakalaka]

So it seems that the ringmaster only provides ringmaster points when placed on the following features:
- Roads
- Cities
- Monasteries
- Fields (even when scored due to a barn - only case admitted in the rules)

"- Monasteries" - even if they are placed on tiles from other expansions (without taking in consideration abbeys, shrines, Darmstadt churches, German monasteries)?

"There is a edge case mentioned for expansion 5 but not for 8." - "expansion 5"? The wagon uses similar rules?

I think that this clarification is how it is because this is the simplest way; no effort from HiG in explaining what happens with castles and German castles (the only 2 cases where there are less or more than 9 tiles).

You're right. German Castles needs an extra clarification too.

Current clarification is clear and today confirmed also for replacing monasteries with Japanese buildings bundled in Carcassonne J edition:

This question is already answered above. For every other expansion, the ringmaster is a normal meeple.
But again, this is a question regarding the combination of several expansions, including a mini.

So Discrosuler: ringmaster bonus can be only when standing on Road as Knight / City as Thieft / Field as Farmer and (Basic game) Monastery as Monk.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Clarification with Barn just solve issue, that Ringmaster is placed on Field as Farmer, which is allowed and Barn is placed or two fields when on one is Barn. Rules says, that when solve placement of Barn or join field with field with Barn, Ringmaster as Farmer gets his bonus points.

Well. Easy and clear.

Why this: For me, they avaid to solve issue, like Monastery / Shrine fight (Ringmaster placed on loosed Shrine) - anyway, what if stays in Monastery? - by basic rules, when monastery finished, Ringmaster get's bonus - doesn't matter if get's 9 or 0 points.

Castles - 6 tiles, German Castle - 10 adjacent tiles, Road to Leipzig - 7 adjacent tiles etc.

Why they what to Ringmaster to loose his bonus also from abbey, darmstadt church, German Cathedrals, German Monasteries? I don't know here.

With other features where adjacent tiles is different that 8 can be simplication that all of adjacent tiles depends on feature (Castle 6, Double tiles 10, etc) - simple.

But as you see. HiG are not so happy to solve issue with rules.

[Meepledrone]

Besides sweeping any possible problems under a carpet, the only reason I see for denying ringmaster points for features not in the base game is that these other features may provide special mechanics and scorings that HiG wouldn't like to overload with the addition of ringmaster points.

It is public that Exp. 10 can boost the players' scorings, but I think that this effect may be watered down when adding more expansions so building clusters of circus and acrobat tiles won't probably be that easy.

I wouldn't dare to think that HiG has a secret plan to create a walled garden around their major expansions and leave everything outside disconnected from them. They seem to be already doing this with the mini expansions...

[DrMeeple]

Thank you Meepledrone for your work! Finally we have official rules. HiG’s style of course hahaha I think it’s important to have all the official clarifications of the rules from HiG. After we can prefer some house rules but that’s another think. You can always play like you prefer.
I think it’s important to keep the feedback with HiG about clarifications. But If now we get angry with HiG because his answers... maybe they won’t give us more clarifications.
I agree that HiG don’t take care about the rules and the interaction of all the expansions that they created... And after the fans have a lot of doubts and we start to play by ourselves thinking this is correct or this not.. Be careful. I think HIG should take this issue about rules and make a big book or page on his website with all the clarifications and possible interactions...
I’m agree with Meepledrone about mini expansions. Clearly they make them for money and only take care about big expansions only...


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[Meepledrone]

Ringmaster and magic portal

[Q3] If a ringmaster is placed via a magic portal, does it become a normal meeple as per the rules of Exp. 10? (see clarification http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5020.0)

[A3] For the part related to "placing" the meeple, it is a normal meeple. Once it is on the board, it is a ringmaster again. In this case with all its abilites if the feature is a road, a city, a monastery or a field, like in the previous case.
But if you would place the ringmaster in a German castle, for example, it is back to "normal" without its special abilites (ringmaster points).