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Messages - Vital Pluymers

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61
Official Rules / Re: Placing a meeple in the city of Carcassonne
« on: January 27, 2021, 06:22:10 AM »
I do not understand this phrase as a dependency.

If there was a dependency, it would be stipulated by "if you did the placement" :o (and that's what's written in the order of play ("if you did the placement")).

The French and German rules are even more clear, as they use furthermore, or moreover ("de plus" in French rules, "Zusätzlich" in German rules) instead of then.

So I do not see a dependency here. English rules may not be clear enough, but German rules are clear:
If you fulfill the conditions above, you may place a meeple in the city of Carcassonne (may = you do it or not). Furthermore / moreover, you may move the count.

There's no dependency ?   ???

Hi again, I have some news  ;)

My interpretation was correct  :D

I asked HiG about this (can we move the count even if we choose not to place a meeple in the city of Carcassonne), and the answer I got from Andreas Kramer is Yes  ;)

Screenshots of the e-mails below. I can forward the e-mail if necessary.

This should be included as a note in exp 6 rules, and as a possibility in the order of play:

If the conditions are met, we may:
  • Place a meeple in the city of Carcassonne only
  • Move the count only
  • Place a meeple in the city of Carcassonne and then move the count

I think Andreas Kramer should firstly reread the rules again...
This can't be right...  :-[

That would change the game play with the Count completely. The challenge and fun while playing with the Count is that you have to "sacrifice" a meeple (and a few points) to be able to deblock the meeple(s) you want to use. With this clarification, you would only have to sacrifice a few points...

62
I did just get my prize, thanks a lot Meepledrone, I didn't expect such a prize !  :o   :D

But I'm gonna keep it secret, let's participate in next year's quizz, and maybe you'll get your prize  ;)

Everyone, let's practice and read WICA as bedtime reading to be prepared for next year  :yellow-meeple:


Oh, and +1 merit for Meepledrone for the amazing work for that quizz, it was really fun !  :yellow-meeple:

Got a present as well last week. And I admit, I was really happily surprised with this nice attention and kind words!  :D ^-^ 8)
So, thank You, Meepledrone!  :D


63
Official Rules / Re: Question about messages and negative points
« on: January 27, 2021, 01:17:37 AM »

I did just realize the message #4 may grant a builder double turn even if the builder did already grant a double turn before:
Quote
If a tile is added to a feature with a builder and triggers the drawing of Message #4, The Message extra tile comes before the builder extra turn. If the extra tile from the Message is put on the builder's feature, this will create another builder extra turn. Thus, the events would be: initial turn => Message #4 turn => Message #4 builder turn => original tile's builder turn. (11/2013)
This is evil  >:D
When combining many expansions, there are chances every messages are drawn twice, and so the message #4 too. We could immagine the following sequence:
  • initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )
  • Message #4 (1st draw) turn
  • Message #4 (1st draw) builder turn
  • original tile's builder turn (with 2nd draw of message #4 )
  • Message #4 (2nd draw) turn
  • Message #4 (2nd draw) builder turn
And it could go on for two more turns if there's a third draw of message #4... I did already have 2 draws of that message while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns), so I guess with 6 turns (sequence above), a 3rd draw of message 4 could be possible...


That chain reaction can hardly happen. After the initial draw of your Message #4 tile, you have to place it at the bottom of the facedown stack again. So, that means that you have to draw the seven other message tiles first before you are able to draw the Massage #4 tile for the second time. That will not happen!

I know that, but as mentioned, I did already have 2 draws of that message, while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns). There are 4 opportunities to draw messages in a single turn (even 5 if you draw a WoF, peasant revolt or windrose tile) if combining many expansions, and many ways to chose how many points you get (captured meeple buyback, abbot removal, bathhouse buyback, meeple protection...). That means:

  • initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )4-5 opportunities to draw a message
  • Message #4 (1st draw) turn 4-5 more opportunities to draw a message
  • Message #4 (1st draw) builder turn4-5 more opportunities to draw a message
  • original tile's builder turn 4-5 more opportunities to draw a message, at that point, there is a chance you got at least seven messages, as you had 16 to 20 opportunities to draw them(with 2nd draw of message #4 )
  • Message #4 (2nd draw) turn
  • Message #4 (2nd draw) builder turn

Of course this require to focus your strategy on messages, but it may be worth it, as getting additional turns is a great opportunity !  ;)

Theoretically, that may be right, but in reality it will never happen. I rarely have two or more messages in one turn. And to get them draw after draw, I don't believe it will ever happen.

64
The rules indicate that you cannot protect farmers, but as per the clarifications, I would assume you can protect farmers if you want, but it is just a waste of points unless you have an agenda for that farmer.

Since meeples keep their protection when they are moved or exchanged, it could be worthwile to keep the protection of an exchanged farmer (farmers can only get protection by an exchange, I suppose)  as he might be exchanged again, for instance while playing the catapult expansion.

65
Official Rules / Re: Question about messages and negative points
« on: January 26, 2021, 11:40:20 PM »

I did just realize the message #4 may grant a builder double turn even if the builder did already grant a double turn before:
Quote
If a tile is added to a feature with a builder and triggers the drawing of Message #4, The Message extra tile comes before the builder extra turn. If the extra tile from the Message is put on the builder's feature, this will create another builder extra turn. Thus, the events would be: initial turn => Message #4 turn => Message #4 builder turn => original tile's builder turn. (11/2013)
This is evil  >:D
When combining many expansions, there are chances every messages are drawn twice, and so the message #4 too. We could immagine the following sequence:
  • initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )
  • Message #4 (1st draw) turn
  • Message #4 (1st draw) builder turn
  • original tile's builder turn (with 2nd draw of message #4 )
  • Message #4 (2nd draw) turn
  • Message #4 (2nd draw) builder turn
And it could go on for two more turns if there's a third draw of message #4... I did already have 2 draws of that message while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns), so I guess with 6 turns (sequence above), a 3rd draw of message 4 could be possible...


That chain reaction can hardly happen. After the initial draw of your Message #4 tile, you have to place it at the bottom of the facedown stack again. So, that means that you have to draw the seven other message tiles first before you are able to draw the Massage #4 tile for the second time. That will not happen!

66
Well, I must say I like these clarifications.
I would have come to the same conclusion!  :D

67
Official Rules / Re: Doubt about the bazaar.
« on: January 21, 2021, 10:32:03 AM »
I think the rules have always been like option 3...

I found this on BGG:

Quote
Charlie Beard@patriotsfever86
I having a bit of trouble understanding all the nuances of how bazaars work. Could someone explain them in detail with examples? Maybe include how the rules effect two-player games. And maybe a little strategy. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
[\quote]

Quote
When you play a tile with a bazaar, it is the same as any other tile. Place it, potentially place a meeple, potentially score it. Then the game is interrupted.

The person who placed the tile, we'll call him Andy, draws as many new tiles as there are players in the game. So if there are 4 players, Andy will draw 4 tiles and place them face-up so everyone can see them.

The player to Andy's left, we'll call him Brian, starts as the first auctioneer. Brian will select one of the 4 tiles and put it up for auction. He can bid anything but let's say he starts it off at 0. Everyone else, in clockwise order around the table gets once chance to bid. Christie, to Brian's left, passes. Dawn, on her left bids 2 points. Back now to Andy who bids 3 points.

At this point, Brian has 2 options. He can buy the tile for the highest price (3 points in this case) and gives those 3 points to Andy (since he was the high bidder) or he can allow Andy to have it for 3 points in which case Andy gives Brian the 3 points (either way, one is deducting 3 points and the other is adding them). We will say Brian let Andy had it for 3 points. there are now 3 tiles left. Since Andy bought a tile, he sits out the rest of the auctions for this round.

Brian, having not won a tile, starts the 2nd auction. He again selects a tile and places a bid. He again bids 0. Again, Christie passes and Dawn decides to bid only 1 point. Brian decides to keep this one and deducts 1 point from his score and Dawn adds 1 point. There are now 2 remaining tiles and Brian also must sit out with Andy.

Now Christie is the next player in order who has not purchased a tile. She must select one of the two remaining tiles. Since she can't pass as the auctioneer, she also bids 0 points. Dawn decides she doesn't want it either so passes. Christie wins it for 0 points.

Dawn is now the last player to have not won a tile and there is only 1 tile left. She takes the final tile for 0 points. All players now have a tile.

Starting to the left of the person who played the original Bazaar tile (Andy started it so Brian is to his left), will now play a normal round. So Brian places his tile, places a meeple, scores if possible. Then Christie places her tiles, meeples, scores. Then Dawn places her tile, meeples scores. Finally Andy places his tile, meeples and scores. The bazaar turn is now over and play resumes as normal with Brian starting the next round as normal.

68
News and Events / Re: Announcement from Hans Im Gluck
« on: January 21, 2021, 06:40:01 AM »
Quote
...and detailed easter-eggs are a special asset for all fans.

What do they mean with detailed easter-eggs?

69
Official Rules / Re: Doubt about the bazaar.
« on: January 21, 2021, 05:25:24 AM »
I did not paid very much attention to the paid points, I only wanted to know if I understand ref 24: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-24. Thanks!

I didn't pay attention to that as I was not aware that there were existing different rules  ;D

I always play according to the rule that you always (re)start with the first player following the player that placed the bazaar tile and has not bought an auctioned tile yet.
That means in example 1 for instance that in auction round 2 Blue chooses again an auctioned tile as he didn't buy one in the first auction round.

70
Official Rules / Re: Doubt about the bazaar.
« on: January 21, 2021, 12:34:43 AM »
Corrections in purple

Are these examples correct?

1st example

The turn order is You, Blue and Black. You are the red player.

You draw a bazaar tile and place it normally. After Your turn is complete, You draw 3 tiles for the auction.

1. Blue chooses one of the tiles and bids 2 points. Black bids 3 points, and You pass. Because Black is the highest bidder, and Blue still wants the tile, he or she buys it from Black by losing 3 points, while Black gains 3 points.

2. Black chooses the next tile, and bids 2 points. You bid 3 points, and Black decides to sell You the tile. You lose 3 points and Black gains 3 points.

3. There is only one tile left, which Black takes for free. Starting with Blue, each player places his or her tile normally.

2nd example

The turn order is You, Blue and Black. You are the red player.

You draw a bazaar tile and place it normally. After Your turn is complete, You draw 3 tiles for the auction.

1. Blue chooses one of the tiles and bids 2 points. Black bids 3 points, and You pass. Blue decides to sell the tile to Black. Blue gains 3 points and Black loses 3 points.

2. You choose the next tile, and You bid 2 points. Blue bids 3 points, and You decide to buy the tile from Blue. You lose 3 points and Blue gains 3 points.

3. There is only one tile left, which Blue takes for free. Starting with Blue, each player places his or her tile normally.

3rd example

The turn order is You, Blue, Green and Black. You are the red player.

You draw a bazaar tile and place it normally. After Your turn is complete, You draw 3 tiles for the auction.

1. Blue chooses one of the tiles and bids 2 points. Black bids 3 points, Green passes and You pass. Blue decides to sell the tile to Black. Blue gains 3 points and Black loses 3 points.

2. Green chooses the next tile. You pass, and Blue bids 2 points. Green decides to sell the tile to Blue. Green gains 2 points and Blue loses 2 points.

3. You choose the next tile, and You bid 2 points. Green passes. You lose 2 points.

4. There is only one tile left, which Green takes for free. Starting with Blue, each player places his or her tile normally.

71
Official Rules / Re: Placing a meeple in the city of Carcassonne
« on: January 17, 2021, 11:23:44 PM »
Well, The sentence is at the end of a paragraph starting with the conditions to move a meeple to Carcassonne:

German wording:
Quote
Jedes Mal, wenn du bei 3. Eine Wertung auslösen selbst eine Wertung auslöst, bei der mindestens ein Mitspieler Punkte erhält, du selbst jedoch keine, darfst du am Zugende 1 Meeple aus deinem Vorrat auf ein Stadtviertel deiner Wahl stellen. Zusätzlich darfst du den Grafen in ein Stadtviertel deiner Wahl stellen.
English translation:
Quote
Each time you trigger a score in 3. Score a feature where at least one player scores points but you do not, you may place 1 meeple from your supply in a city quarter of your choice at the end of your turn. In addition, you may place the count in a city quarter of your choice.

So, the actions are to be linked, right?

Note: This is a deja vu of the Markets of Leipzig re: the conditions to get the Wainwright quarter bonus when sending a meeple to Leipzig (only from a road with more than one meeple) ;)

It has to be in the same paragraph as it is linked to the same condition that is "Each time you trigger a score in 3. Score a feature where at least one player scores points but you do not".

But the two following actions (place a meeple and move the count) are two separate phrases, with "zuzatzlich" inbetween. I personnally do not understand this phrase as beeing dependent to each other, but only dependent to the scoring condition.  ???

But the wording is probably not clear enough to be sure of anything, so... Ok, let's say it's dependent, we have to take an option :)

By the way, speaking some German I do not use Google translate. But when we give full attention to a specific word, we should translate the word only in Google to get its different meanings. Zusätzlich doesn't mean "in addition" (that's "und dazu"). Zusätzlich means moreover, furthermore, additionally, supplementary...

Have you seen the first attachment posted by Carcassonne 93?
It states:

Quote
Der Graf
Immer wenn ein Spieler einen Gefolgsmann in die Stadt Carcassonne
stellt, darf er auch den Grafen in ein beliebiges der vier Stadtviertel stellen.

I think this closes the discussion. There is clearly a dependency.

72
News and Events / Re: Announcement from Hans Im Gluck
« on: January 15, 2021, 12:26:41 AM »

73
Question #15: The Yellow Messenger landed on a dark space. As a result, Yellow receives the message shown by
The Grinch. How many points does Yellow score for this message when applied to this feature?





Answer #15: after receiving this message, Yellow will have to score the city as if after the game and remove the meeple.

Yellow will the score 5 points for the city:
- The city itself is worth 0 points ( 5 tiles x 0 points for the cathedral)
- The Mage bonus is 5 points ( 5 tiles x 1 point per tile for the mage )

Yellow will also receive 3 points for the fairy next to their meeple.

Notes:
* The German castle bonus is not applicable during final scoring.
* The Mage bonus is applied during the game and after the game for incomplete features, even if the incomplete feature scores 0 points due to an inn or a cathedral, like in this case. The Mage bonus is applied after the inn or cathedral.

Bottomline:
- Yellow scores 8 points in two scoring events (5 points for the city with the mage + 3 points for the fairy)

Final note: Yellow could also renounce to score any points for the feature and receive 2 points for the message instead. However this case is not the answer expected for this question.

The mage remains on the tile?

Yes, the mage stays in the city until the city is completed or until he is relocated after placing a new mage/witch tile.

74
Official Rules / Re: Dragon protection
« on: January 07, 2021, 03:06:38 AM »
Somebody on reddit says the ferries protect you from dragon, and apparently it's something 'obviously official', yet I cannot find it mentioned anywhere in the rules, neither in questions on wikicarpedia. Does dragon fear the water tiles or what? How does a ferry protect you? What am I missing here?

 ;D ;D ;D

Replace "ferrie" by "fairy" and it will be correct!

75
The Marketplace / Re: WTS CARCASSONNE - DE STAD SEALED (wooden box)
« on: January 07, 2021, 02:29:25 AM »
I just want to sell it because i cant play with it, it's SEALED and the other reason is that im married :-X

Seals can be ripped and marriages can be broken.
Just play the game!  >:D

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