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Messages - Vital Pluymers
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46
« on: February 02, 2021, 02:26:46 PM »
Hey there, I have a question,
Since the halflings are counted as one when there’s no complete tile, but also counts as one When 2 halflings connect, is this information on WICA still up to date?
The "new" rules about halflings were "clarified" only a few days ago. So, that means that there is a lot of information on WICA now that needs to be updated. The interaction with the flier is indeed one of them.
47
« on: February 02, 2021, 02:20:47 PM »
So there is very big mess in C2 rules.
Not only in the rules 
48
« on: February 02, 2021, 01:27:32 PM »
Yesterday I had a long monologue with HiG on Discord after the issue with the scoring events during the turn sequence showed up again...
* I included in my posts a long explanation on how the shepherd actions in Exp.9 should be interpreted from reading the rules in English and German and from the Turn Sequence in Big Box 5, where the shepherd actions are included in Phase 2.
* I also showed them how misleading the rules for the abbot are, and also cross referenced them to the Turn Summary in Big Box 6 that shows the abbot removal happening in Phase 2.
* Additionally, I showed them how confusing the rules about the dragon are in Exp. 3 (volcano and dragon tiles) and demonstrated that Step 1b should be Step 2b accoring the German wording of the rules and the Turn Sequence in Big Box 3.
As per today's reply, it seems that the HiG team are going to sit down and discuss all these dark spots in the rules in order to decide what clarifications are needed. I cross my fingers... 
Finally!  Curious to know what will be the outcome...
49
« on: February 01, 2021, 04:06:58 AM »
Here you can find some info on key people at HiG... 
https://www.hans-im-glueck.de/en/verlag/mitarbeiter.html
We have been talking to Johannes and Freddy on Discord.
Point proven, I guess! Carcassonne is not even mentioned in both people's biography or favorite games, so what do they know? I am sure there is much more expertise combined in this forum than in the whole HiG team. I don't say that all the clarifications that were provided lately are bad. Some of them would make the game easier to understand and to explain. But it is impossible to create overall rules if you are ignoring some of the game elements. If you release a game or an expansion, it is normal that you think about the interaction of all elements of the game. And you provide a decent service to the fans and customers that are paying for it.
50
« on: January 31, 2021, 03:05:43 PM »
Yes... This is our only way to deal with the issue. Whatever the response is regarding the abbot, we will have to extrapolate for the other expansions. And nailing down the scoring events in the turn sequence is the corner stone to see how to appraoch the whole issue.
So we are allowed to ask about:
- Interactions between expansions within a Big Box
- Interaction between major expansions
- Clarifications about the rules of any expansion (major or minor)
We cannot ask about interactions with minor expansions... unless they feel magnanimous and provide a hint.
Sorry guys, but I don't even know why you care about anything that guy is saying. His replies made clear that he is not even aware of the clarifications given in the past. Why should we care about his bla bla bla if he has not taken into account any interactions with the smaller expansions that were released by... guess what, the company he is representing and you are asking clarifications from... And on top of that, we have to be careful and thankful, otherwise we might end up on a blacklist. We might be punished and we won't get any answers anymore... Give me a break...
51
« on: January 30, 2021, 12:02:10 AM »
In my mind, I think of occupied spaces by:
* 1 halfling tile
* 2 haflings tiles
* 1 square tile
* 1 double-sized tile
So the mechanics address occupied spaces, but affect all the tiles overlapping that space.
- You score by occupied space (normally equivalent to a [square] tile)
- Adjacency is based on tiles overlapping an adjacent space to a given one.
- Ranges based on spaces and the action involved (deploying a meeple, capturing a meeple, moving the dragon) affects any tile overlapping that space. For eaxmple, the dragon would eat all the meeples on a double-sized tile as soon as it reaches the tile, but each half of the tile will be considered individually for its movement (you allways follow the underlying square grid).
The Reference Pages were using "tile" (basic case) or "occupied space" (with halflings and/or double-sized tiles) depending on the expansion selected. I will have to revisit everything... 
Yes, the result is the same. I prefer the wording below because it allows to keep the word "tile" in the rules and scorings, same as what the official rules do 
I used this wording on my French order of play, seemed easy enough to understand, and replaces tons of clarifications:
A space is considered as occupied as soon as a single halflings is placed in it. A space occupied by two halflings is considered as a single tile for actions and evaluations (it takes one movement of the dragon to cross a space occupied by one or two halflings).
A double-tile is considered as two tiles for actions and evaluations (it takes two movements of the dragon to cross it), but the whole is affected as soon as part of the double-tile is affected by an action (the dragon eats the figures of the entire double-tile as soon as it reached one of its two spaces).
It's a bit like saying a tile = a square space for actions and evaluations (double tile = 2 tiles, two halflings in a single space = 1 tile).
Clarifying it like this allowed me to then keep the word "tile" for the rest of the rules and the scorings, as this is the word used by the official rules (road = 1 point per tile, city = 2 points per tile).
Keeping the wording simple... Not an easy task, huh?
I believe the wording of corinthiens13 is easier to comprehend.
52
« on: January 28, 2021, 04:01:39 AM »
Would be even more special with 73 tiles though 
Indeed!
53
« on: January 28, 2021, 03:27:29 AM »
So it seems that the ringmaster only provides ringmaster points when placed on the following features:
- Roads
- Cities
- Monasteries
- Fields (even when scored due to a barn - only case admitted in the rules)
"- Monasteries" - even if they are placed on tiles from other expansions (without taking in consideration abbeys, shrines, Darmstadt churches, German monasteries)?
"There is a edge case mentioned for expansion 5 but not for 8." - "expansion 5"? The wagon uses similar rules?
I think that this clarification is how it is because this is the simplest way; no effort from HiG in explaining what happens with castles and German castles (the only 2 cases where there are less or more than 9 tiles).
You're right. German Castles needs an extra clarification too.
54
« on: January 28, 2021, 12:44:05 AM »
55
« on: January 28, 2021, 12:14:36 AM »
Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?
And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings.
Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one.
Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?
I'd suggest that, when we use german/dutch/japanese monasteries by replacing base game tiles, then they become part of base game features as long as they are played as a base game feature.
So a ringmaster placed as a monk on a German monastery replacing base game tiles still gets his ringmaster bonus
But not when you place the ringmaster on a similar abbey of Darmstadt monastery? And not when you don't replace the base game monasteries by German monasteries? Come on, corinthiens13, you have to admit that this really is not making any sense.
56
« on: January 28, 2021, 12:02:28 AM »
Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?
And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings.
Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one.
Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?
True, no logic at all. Anyhow, since we always play with a bag full of tiles, we never remove any monasteries anyway
57
« on: January 27, 2021, 11:59:35 PM »
Thanks Meepledrone for those clarifications! I think they will make the game easier to explain and understand
Especially for the barn!
I can also live with these clarifications. Although they are completely different compared to what we applied before, they are easier to understand, to explain and to apply. It's only a pity that they are not consequent regarding the Market op Leipzig roads which are clearly on both halves of the double tiles. There will be a lot of work to do for Meepledrone and his team now But honestly, is there anyone who can understand the behaviour and attitude of HiG in this matter? These topics are discussed on this forum already for years now. If they had any respect for their fanbase, why didn't they intervene and helped us spontanously? There could be two options: (i) They read it, saw it, but just didn't care. (ii) They didn't read anything on this forum dedicated to Carcassonne I don't know which option I would consider the worst... I own more than 350 different games. Also with other games, sometimes I have questions concerning some rules. When you go to the forum of BGG, in 95% of the cases you can find the answers easily, mostly because the designers or publishers are participating on the forums and just clarify how the games should be played. There were a few cases in which I could not find the answer. When I contacted the author or publisher, I always received a clear personal answer within a week! On that same BGG site, as on many different other sites dedicated to boardgames, our forum and WICA are praised and linked as the holy bible of Carcassonne. Then can someone explain to me why HiG and their complete team let us struggle for so long with our questions? They should feel awfully ashamed!
58
« on: January 27, 2021, 11:44:18 PM »
Today we got the following clarification from Johannes (HiG) on the HiG Discord server.
[A2] No it's referring to everything. Otherwise you will run into problems (like the castle), because there are no 8 tiles surrounding it. Same thing would apply to German monasteries.
Except for the castle and German Castle, there are no other cases for which it could lead to possible problems. The eight spaces around the tile are always easy to spot as circus tiles are always normal shaped rectangular tiles. Regarding castles, there would be two options: (i) Ringmasters on castles do not get any bonuses. (ii) For ringmasters on bonuses, only circus tiles in the castles fief are triggering the bonus. All problems would have been solved. For German Castles, it is a little more complicated if you want to respect the eight spaces around the tile. Maybe an option would be to choose the left or right side from the double tile Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this? I will not play according to these rules. Ringmasters get bonuses for all completed features they are occupying. For castles I will apply option (ii).
59
« on: January 27, 2021, 02:50:14 PM »
General: The ringmaster counts as a normal meeple. He has the same uses as a normal meeple in all expansions. What was you interpretation? [/quote] I interpreted this sentence as saying that you can also place your ringmaster on all other expansion's features, just like you can with a normal meeple. You can place it in a shrine, in a German Cathedral, etc. And when you do, you should receive the ringmaster bonus when the feature is completed. To award bonuses only for base game features, that's just rediculous. Better stop asking clarifications, this is not funny anymore... 
60
« on: January 27, 2021, 08:16:00 AM »
I agree that maybe Andres does not know this expansion in detail.
I just remembered the official variants for the movement of the Count that HiG released for C1:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#Official_variants_.5B11.5D
Please check the wording of the variants. I underlined the interesting parts (Note: by freely moving the Count, they are referring to the movement of the Count to any district of choice of the active player):
Even the aristocracy are subject to certain rules, and cannot simply do whatever they may want. The following variants take this into account and constrain the freedom of the Count. Using these variants will provide even more tactical possibilities. In both variants, the Count may no longer be freely moved, but rather:
* whenever a new meeple is deployed to the city of Carcassonne, the Count is moved clockwise to the next city district, or
* the Count is moved to whichever city district the new meeple is deployed to.
That's true, but those are CI rules, and they were totally different.
CI rule makes it clear that we may move the count only if we did place a meeple in the city:
When a player deploys a follower to Carcassonne, he or she may also move the Count to one of the City quarters.
CII rules have changed:
you may place a meeple in one of the four city districts (even if the Count is in that district). Then, you may move the Count to a district of your choice within the city of Carcassonne.
If they changed the rules, that's for a reason
If HiG wanted us to play with CI rule, they wouldn't have changed the rules for CII. And once again, the wording of CII German rules makes it clear that we may move the count even if we choose not to place a meeple:
If [...] you may place a meeple in one of the four city districts (even if the Count is in that district). Then, you may move the Count to a district of your choice within the city of Carcassonne.
If there was a dependency, it would be stipulated by "if you did the placement, you may...", or "after placing a meeple in the city of Carcassonne, you may...".
The French and German rules are even more clear, as they use furthermore, or moreover ("de plus" in French rules, "Zusätzlich" in German rules) instead of then. Those words DO NOT imply a dependency, they're just a more constructed way of saying "and also" (you may do this, AND you may also do that). English rules may not be clear enough by using "then", but German rules are clear (French too, maybe the reason why I didn't even think there could be a dependency before).
I am still not convinced that they wanted to change the rules. There is a difference between rephrasing a text and changing a rule. "Zusätzlich" means "additionally". Adding means +1, one can only add something to another action that was already done. Nevertheless, I will stick to the C I rules for sure. I cannot think of any improvement HiG came up with when they were adapting rules. They were wrong when they changed the rules for the wagon, they messed up when they changed the rules for monasteries (spaces vs tiles) and they are wrong once again if they changed the rules for the movement of the Count (if this would really be a change of the rules...).
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