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Messages - Vital Pluymers
16
« on: March 03, 2022, 10:39:09 PM »
Hi DINO, I agree!
+1 merit from me.
17
« on: February 11, 2022, 11:45:57 PM »
If the completed unoccupied monastery is in a castle fief, it will trigger the scoring of the castle. Note that the castle would score the same points as the monastery is worth, but it does not score the monastery itself.
That is clear. If a completed unoccupied monastery is in a castle's fief, the castle owner scores 9 points for the completed castle, eventually increased by additional points for vineyards, etc. So, a castle should not trigger the Tanners quater bonus for a monastery in any case. Besides, note that a castle may be scoring points for one out of several features completed in its fief, and the castle's owner may decide to not score points for a completed monastery because there were other features worth more points.
That is evident. The Bookbinders quarter is triggered by the scoring of an occupied monastery (any player will do). When an unoccupied monastery is completed nobody scores its points.
Here I don't agree. Bookbinders quarter: For each scoring of a completed monastery (as well for monasteries of other players) you get 4 bonus points.The Bookbinders quarter is triggered by the scoring of a completed monastery. Basegame rules: The player must score any feature completed by tile placement. Scoring of a feature is triggered by the completion of a feature. A monastery is completed when it is completely surrounded by tiles. During scoring, the monastery is worth 1 point per tile that completes it (including the monastery itself). My interpretation is that all completed features are scored, but if it is unoccupied (hence nobody has a majority) nobody actually receives points. That would imply that the Bookbinders quarter is triggered by the completion of any monastery, occupied or not.
18
« on: February 06, 2022, 02:35:05 PM »
If an unoccupied cloister can trigger the completion of a castle, then I believe it could also trigger the Bookbinder's bonus.
19
« on: December 05, 2021, 04:03:23 AM »
I am a little confused about the Abbot rules.
In footnote 14 of the Abbot rules is stated:
[14] You can only score the abbot placed on a monastery or a garden before the feature is completely surrounded by tiles. In this case, you always score the abbot (on the feature), never the feature itself. (11/2020)
So, this footnote states that you cannot score a completed monastery in phase 2.
However, in footnote 8 of New Edition Exp. 9 Hills and Sheeps is written:
[8] If an abbot is removed from a completed monastery in phase 2. Placing a meeple, it will not get points for any adjacent vineyards, since the feature is not scored in phase 3. Scoring a feature when vineyards are applied.
So, this implies that you can score an Abbot already in phase 2 even if the monastery is completed, e.g. to protect him from the Dragon or Pest.
What is correct?
20
« on: November 03, 2021, 04:11:13 AM »
It will start on December 1st... 
Just wondering how you can organize a quiz when 30% of the rules are outdated, waiting for further clarifications, have differences between C1 and C2, in other words are not clear at all anymore. Or one should study Wikicarpedia or screen all the messages on this forum on a daily base. And even then, it stays a mess... I have to say that I'm slowly starting to lose interest in this game with all this chaos around. And I used to be a real hard-core fan...
21
« on: May 24, 2021, 08:54:39 AM »
Hello, I still have doubts about two fairy rules, who could help me?
1= I'm playing with the rule that the fairy can't move under any circumstances when you mark with the meeple and the ghost, is that correct? Or when you place the ghost can you move the fairy?
2= At the end of the game, the fairy gives 3 points if it is in the tile where there is a farmer. Does the farmer have to win the farm to get the 3 points?
tks you very much for the help!
1. Moving the fairy is just one of the move the wood options. So after moving the fairy as a first action, you can still place the phantom as a second move the wood action. 2. The fairy gives three points to the meeple she is placed next to during the final scoring. If she's placed next to a farmer, the owner of that farmer gets three points. That player does not need to have the majority in the farm.
22
« on: May 16, 2021, 05:25:16 AM »
In my opinion it shouldn't grant extra turn, as it is not expanding the road, just ending it, similar like it works with the Abbey.
Exactly! 
23
« on: April 02, 2021, 05:30:05 AM »
24
« on: April 01, 2021, 02:04:43 AM »
I'm very excited about this news, especially on April's first 
25
« on: March 30, 2021, 01:42:34 AM »
If you check this clarification (original text in German, see translation below), it indicates that meeples placed as abbots on a German monastery are still considered monks. This would also apply to other special monasteries such as Dutch & Belgian monasteries or Japanese buildings.
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=781.msg9971#msg9971
Here you are the translation into English:
Since the rule for the flier is older, as is known, we did not know that one day a follower could also be placed as an abbot on the monastery (German monastery). So even if in the rule would have said "monk", this would not exclude the "abbot" on the German monastery. Thus, the flier can choose to land as Monk or Abbot on the German Monastery."
Conclusion: if the rule of an older extension speaks only of monk, that does not exclude the abbot on the German monastery.
Yeah... That's why I said the debate about this may still be open...
This interpretation seems really unlogical to me !
Acrobats didn't exist when WoF was released, so why not count acrobats too? 
Monk is a role, abbot on a monastery is another. Rule is so simple, 2 points per monk, no ambiguity, why then separate role and position to make a rule strange, difficult to understand...etc?
Heretic was the only possible role other than monk on a feature with cloister mechanic back then. So, by the same interpretation you mentioned, we may conclude:
If the rule of an older expansion speaks only of heretic, that does not exclude the abbot on the German monastery (so if heretic role isnn't counted, abbot role neither) 
I agree with corinthiens13 on this one. I believe that this clarification was only meant for the placement of meeples on potential features that could be claimed, for instance by fliers, magic portals, catapult seductions, the arrows of the jubilee editions, etc. In the beginning of Carcassonne, it seemed a good idea to list all the possible meeple roles that were fitted for a specific new mechanic. But with more and more expansions appearing over the years, this approach turned out to be a bad one. Nowadays it seems much better to list all the meeple roles that are not permitted, e.g. "fliers cannot land on fields". A meeple as a monk vs a meeple as an abbot are two completely different mechanics. In my humble opinion, they are never related. So, I don't include them when counting monks for the WoF. Furthermore, I sincerely believe that it should not be allowed to move meeples from the "Cathedral district" of the City of Carcassonne to cloisters as an abbot at the end of the game (Yes, I play according to the C1 rules which allow all the meeples not blocked by the Count to be moved to the playing area.)
26
« on: February 23, 2021, 10:07:11 PM »
Castles and wagons[/b]
This confirms a castle has 6 adjacent tiles and could be applied to goldmines too ?
I guess yes.
Previous clarificaiton will also add possibilities for ringmaster on Castle to get bonus if rules will be changes. HiG (Johanes) told that they will consider change of this rule. (Currently Ringmaster can get only bonus when placed on Road/City/Basic Game Monastery and Field on all other features will not get his bonus when scores).
That would be nice! 
27
« on: February 09, 2021, 09:07:32 AM »
I'm tired, sorry for the two replies I did just post and delete, I got confused 
I think we should always consider the spaces around the feature.
• For features like the monastery group, watchtower, big top we count the 8 spaces around the feature tile.
• For the German castle tile, we count the ten spaces around the German castle tile.
• For castles, we count the six spaces of the castle’s fief.
• For meeples for which the surrounding space is important, like the wagon or ringmaster, we consider the number of spaces based on the tile it is placed on, hence 8, 10 or the castle’s fief.
• The Leipzig tiles are an exception per definition. Although visually it looks like the road is on two spaces, it’s not. The road on the double Leipzig tiles is only on one space per definition.
Possibility 1: If a double tile is only for one half part of the surrounding spaces, the complete tile counts for that specific space it is extending:
So, there are still eight (or 10 or 4) surrounding spaces, but some of them are extended. These extended spaces are only considered once for scoring.
Possibility 2: If a double tile is completely part of the surrounding spaces, it is overlapping two spaces and both of them are considered for scoring:
So, there are still eight (or 10 or 4) surrounding spaces. Both halves of the double tile are considered for scoring as they are both occupying a space.
That means for the examples from corinthiens 13:
1. The roads above are 4+3 (left) and 6+3 (right) points (6 spaces according to the recent rule clarifications)
2. Pink wagon may move anywhere on the German castle tile (according to Possibility 1)
3. Same would happen with the castle with pink ringmaster, completition of anything on the castle tile triggers the castle's scoring (according to possibility 1)
4. Watchtower under the pink ringmaster, if scored, would get points for the city on the German castle tile. (according to possibility 1)
5. Once completed, blue wagon may move on the 10 surrounding spaces as he is on the German castle. The violet wagon may only move to 8 spaces surrounding the space he's on, but including the complete German castle tile that’s part of the 8 surrounding spaces. (according to possibility 1)
6. Violet ringmaster is considering the 10 spaces around the German Castle tile, so including this circus tile (according to possibility 1)
7. Yellow watchtower is worth 10 points, considering all meeples on the 8 surrounding spaces and including the complete German castle tile because the tile is spartly overlapping one of the 8 surrounding spaces (according to possibility 1)
8. Blue watchtower is worth 2 points for the roads on the German castle tiles (according to possibility 2), and one for each road on Leipzig's tiles (per definition), and one for the watchtower tile, 5 in total
9. Watchtower with pink meeple is 4 points, considering Leipzig once (according to possibility 1)
10. Black's watchtower is worth 5 points (according to possibility 2)
This is a possibility. My problem with this is that if the roads above are 4+3 (left) and 6+3 (right) points, this means we are making a difference between the road segments based on their position on the German Castle tile (left example, only one of the two segments are counted, since they are on the same space, and right example, both of the two segments are counted since they are on two different spaces).
Then, why wouldn't we use se same mechanism for watchtower and consider only features that are directly on the 8 surrounding tiles? (+meeple on the german castle that is on both spaces)?
I think it'd be too strange to consider each feature on their specific space for road scoring, and then not for watchtower scoring 
Scoring of roads and cities has nothing to do with surrounding areas. The rules for roads say that you score 1 point for every space the road is passing through. So in this way the rules are applied perfectly. If it would be two seperate tiles, the scoring would be exactly the same. Don't let the German Castle tile confuse you. You are scoring a road, so that means 1 point per space the road is passing through. For areas the rules are different. We have learnt from the rules with regards to tower ranges of flyer's directions that an area extends in a 90° direction when a double tile is involved. So that's my proposal, just extend the 8, 10 or 4 surrounding tiles with the second half of the double tile that is not strictly part of the surrounding spaces itself (also 90° to the other direction.
28
« on: February 08, 2021, 01:54:17 AM »
I think we should always consider the spaces around the feature. • For features like the monastery group, watchtower, big top we count the 8 spaces around the feature tile. • For the German castle tile, we count the ten spaces around the German castle tile. • For castles, we count the six spaces of the castle’s fief. • For meeples for which the surrounding space is important, like the wagon or ringmaster, we consider the number of spaces based on the tile it is placed on, hence 8, 10 or the castle’s fief. • The Leipzig tiles are an exception per definition. Although visually it looks like the road is on two spaces, it’s not. The road on the double Leipzig tiles is only on one space per definition. Possibility 1: If a double tile is only for one half part of the surrounding spaces, the complete tile counts for that specific space it is extending: So, there are still eight (or 10 or 4) surrounding spaces, but some of them are extended. These extended spaces are only considered once for scoring. Possibility 2: If a double tile is completely part of the surrounding spaces, it is overlapping two spaces and both of them are considered for scoring: So, there are still eight (or 10 or 4) surrounding spaces. Both halves of the double tile are considered for scoring as they are both occupying a space. That means for the examples from corinthiens 13: 1. The roads above are 4+3 (left) and 6+3 (right) points (6 spaces according to the recent rule clarifications) 2. Pink wagon may move anywhere on the German castle tile (according to Possibility 1) 3. Same would happen with the castle with pink ringmaster, completition of anything on the castle tile triggers the castle's scoring (according to possibility 1) 4. Watchtower under the pink ringmaster, if scored, would get points for the city on the German castle tile. (according to possibility 1) 5. Once completed, blue wagon may move on the 10 surrounding spaces as he is on the German castle. The violet wagon may only move to 8 spaces surrounding the space he's on, but including the complete German castle tile that’s part of the 8 surrounding spaces. (according to possibility 1) 6. Violet ringmaster is considering the 10 spaces around the German Castle tile, so including this circus tile (according to possibility 1) 7. Yellow watchtower is worth 10 points, considering all meeples on the 8 surrounding spaces and including the complete German castle tile because the tile is spartly overlapping one of the 8 surrounding spaces (according to possibility 1) 8. Blue watchtower is worth 2 points for the roads on the German castle tiles (according to possibility 2), and one for each road on Leipzig's tiles (per definition), and one for the watchtower tile, 5 in total 9. Watchtower with pink meeple is 4 points, considering Leipzig once (according to possibility 1) 10. Black's watchtower is worth 5 points (according to possibility 2)
29
« on: February 07, 2021, 01:28:51 PM »
My understanding is that Option A:
* The meeple on the German castle could be counted twice by a watchtower scoring for meeples if both halves are adjacent to it
* The road segment on a Leipzig tile could be counted twice by a watchtower scoring for roads if both halves are adjacent to it
* A little building should be placed on one of the halves of a double-sized tile - you cannot consider it is on both halves.
The issue I have is this duality:
* We want to split the double-sized tile into two but this cannot happen. If so, the meeple would not be on either half so the dragon would not be able to eat it. You would end up with an Exp. 8 castle but this is not the case.
* Meeples placed clearly on one half would benefit or affect bonus scorings on that end but some other scorings would affect the whole tile...
I think this path also leads to conflicting situations... You would need a detailed list of dos and don'ts...
With option B, you have the following principles:
1) You address square spaces and then map to full tiles occupying/overlapping a given space when needed (even of they overflow the square space).
2) A double-sized tile is considered only once when mapped from different square spaces.
3) Two triangular tiles are considered one square tile for scoring purposes.
Yes, option B could work like that. Splitting double tiles into two is not easier and only leads to more confusion....
30
« on: February 07, 2021, 11:12:22 AM »
Yep... Your proposal was my next stop. I hadn't forgotten. 
However, you may need to fine tune it a bit, since the road on a Leipzig tile is not considered two tiles for scoring but one tile. This is a "hidden" edge case, since there are no double-sized tiles with 2 city segments, just this odd case for roads.
Before tuning my wording option, we have to chose how to consider the situations below
As soon as I saw this clarification I also started to think how would a road segment on Leipzig tile interact with an adjacent watchtower scoring for roads...
We have one tile with one road segment scoring as one road segment but occupying two square spaces. The watchtower should consider adjacent spaces with roads...
A) Should the road segment on the Leipzig tile be considered for each adjacent space?
B) Or should the road segment on the Leipzig tile be considered only once because the tile should be considered once?
Option A) seems odd. You would be scoring for the same tile twice.
Regarding option B), ir considers the road on the Leipzig tile would be considered only once. It would be similar to scoring a road with this road segment: it would be considered only once even if it spans across two squares, right?
Any thoughts?
For Leipzig's roads, I think we could say the road is considered to be only on the external square space, for any action and evaluation? That'd be easy to explain and understand, consistent for any expansion combination.
How many points does this watchtower scores? (Ignore the fact that the small city with the red meeple is incomplete).
The question is, with double tiles, how deep do we consider the whole double tile is affected by mechanics ?
Have a look at those situations (there's no farmer, the meeples have been laid down to make them easier to see):
Based on WICA, we already know that:
- When placing the tower piece, range counting ends on a space of the double tile, so we may remove a meeple from both parts
- Blue, having 1 on the dice, ends on a part of the double tile, so blue may place his meeple anywhere on the two parts of the double tile (except the completed road
Then, I think we should use a single mechanic for watchtowers, wagons, castles and ringmaster range. The question is how...
Option A: We consider the spaces, considering a German Castle is on both spaces of the tile, but other features are on a single space (even Leipzig's road, on the external space only)
- Pink wagon may move on the german castle or the two road segments on the left space, but not on the city or road on the right
- Same would happen with the castle with pink ringmaster, completition of the castle or the two road segments on the left space would trigger the castle's scoring, but not the city or road on the right
- Watchtower under the pink ringmaster, if scored, wouldn't get any points for the city on the german castle tile
- Once completed, blue wagon may move on the 12 surrounding spaces as he is on the german castle, but violet wagon may only move on 9 tiles surrounding the space he's on
- Violet ringmaster is not considering the circus tile
- Yellow watchtower is worth 3 points, considering yellow meeple, violet phantom, and blue wagon, not the ringmaster or violet wagon
- Blue watchtower is worth 2 points for the roads on the german castle tiles, and one for each road on Leipzig's tiles, and one for the watchtower tile, 5 in total
- Watchtower with pink meeple is worth 4 points, without counting Leipzig's city segment, but counting both of black city segments
- Black's watchtower is worth 5 points
Option B: We consider the whole double tile
- Pink wagon may move anywhere on the german castle tiles
- Same would happen with the castle with pink ringmaster, completition of anything on the castle tile triggers the castle's scoring
- Watchtower under the pink ringmaster, if scored, wouldn get a point for the city on the german castle tile
- Once completed, blue wagon may move on the 12 surrounding spaces as he is on the german castle, and violet wagon too
- Violet ringmaster IS considering the circus tile (the 12 surrounding tiles)
- Yellow watchtower is worth 5 points, considering every meeple on the german castle tile
- Blue watchtower is worth 1 point for the german castle tile containing roads, 4 in total (this is odd, I thought, green option: we could still consider both spaces for scoring and so it's 5 total points, but then the two following examples would be complicated)
- Watchtower with pink meeple is 4 points, considering Leipzig once (or it's considering the whole tile, with two spaces having a city segment, making it worth 5 points, but this means a watchtower could get more than 9 points)
- Black's watchtower is worth 4 points, considering Leipzig once (or it's considering the two spaces having a city segment, making it worth 5 points)
I prefer option A, it seems simplier to apply and understand, even if this means a meeple on a german castle is considered to be on two spaces and other meeples on a german castle tile are considered to be on a single space.
Option B brings more questions: Black or green rules? Both black and green options makes some odd situations, and the green ones are too complicated to understand and explain...
What do you think?
I don't like option A at all... I would choose option B with the green rules. That seems to be consequent with the rules of dragon movement and occupied spaces in general. You always consider spaces around the tile: normally 9, 12 for German castles and 6 for castles. If one of the spaces contains a double tile that extends that surrounding space to the outside, that part of the double tile is considered too.
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