Author Topic: Question to the English native speakers (Read 8551 times)

Hounk · « **on:** May 31, 2015, 02:27:19 PM »

When I learned English at school, we were told, that the expression "a couple of" normally mean a few, not literally "a couple". A few years ago, my brother-in-law, who is from the United States disagreed with that and told me, that even "a couple of days" means ALWAYS two days and more recently, a colleague from BFI I met at a summer school last year, told me the same. Which surprised me even more, because I thought it might be a difference between American and British English, but it seems not, because he really is British.

Now I found this post from Rosco, who is British, too, and there were more then two pictures coming after:

Quote from: Rosco on May 31, 2015, 01:50:30 PM

Here are a couple of photos.

So I would like to finally know, what's about this expression.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1817.0

Rosco · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2015, 02:38:51 PM »

You are correct it is not a couple if photos - it is a few. It was very poor English .

Andrew the Ambo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2015, 03:04:04 PM »

Down in the Antipodeans (New Zealand and Australia) a couple of means two. A few of means 3 or so. And a dozen means 12.

Whaleyland · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2015, 03:10:04 PM »

I'd argue that while a couple should mean two, it often means "approximately two". I feel it can range above two usually, although that is not linguistically accurate. I agree with Andrew that "a few" is usually a better term for more than 2 but less than an indiscriminate higher amount.

On the "dozen means 12" note, in the US we also have a "baker's dozen" which is 13, which in my mind generally means that the word "dozen" can mean 12-13. I'd put it in the same category as "couple" in that it has a precise meaning, but it doesn't have to be followed exactly.

Andrew the Ambo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2015, 04:41:45 PM »

We have bakers dozen. Historically bakers would chuck in an extra one for free. Hence the term for 13.

CKorfmann · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2015, 07:06:05 PM »

The word "couple" is typically defined as two while "few" usually means three or more. However, I tend to agree with Whaley (and your English teacher) that there are instances where it is relative. Webster's Dictionary backs that up with definition #4 stating that a couple is "an indefinite small number" and lists "few" as a synonym.

I've been over this recently while trying to explain relativity (in terms of language) to my kids. If you're talking about a number, let's say, fewer than 7, or maybe even 10; if you had 7-10 pretzels and I asked, "May I have a couple of your pretzels?" Assuming you agreed, you'd likely hand me two, but if you had a bowl full of pretzels, maybe 30-40, and I asked the same question, you might hand me more than two, maybe even as many as five. In either case I might ask the question, "May I have a few of your pretzels?" and mean the same thing.

If there is one thing to keep in mind about English (especially American English), the rules are broken by slang and many different dialects more often than not. Speaking of dialects, in one town where I used to live, instead of simply saying "a couple of", people would often say "a couple two, three". In this case the word "three" was even frequently pronounced "tree". This makes more sense when I add that this was in the town of Throop, PA, or as the natives pronounced it, "Troop".

Does any of that make sense?

Fritz_Spinne · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2015, 11:20:07 PM »

Interesting thread. I'm not a native english speaker, but I can tell of the german expressions:

The german "einige" is the same as the english "a few"
The german "ein paar" is the same as "einige" and should 2 - 4 or a small amount of a big quantity
The german "ein Paar" (with a capital letter) is exactly 2, a couple.
"ein Paar Schuhe" are two matching shoes, but "ein paar Schuhe" can be more shoes not matching any other.

So I think that "a pair" in english has the tow meanings of "ein paar" and "ein Paar" in German language, it could be an old German heritage.

Rosco · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2015, 11:57:00 PM »

A pair in English is always 2 and is always matching - shoes, socks, wheels for a bike (if the same). A couple is always 2 but colloquially is used as a few. A few is 3 or more depending on the item. A few pairs of trousers would mean 3 or 4. A few crisps would mean as many as you like up to the point that it is considered to be lots of or loads of.

Paul · « **Reply #8 on:** June 01, 2015, 02:22:46 AM »

A couple (of them) exists only in a few and I'll be lucky to find a pair myself.

Hounk · « **Reply #9 on:** June 01, 2015, 03:54:50 AM »

Quote from: Fritz_Spinne on May 31, 2015, 11:20:07 PM

Interesting thread. I'm not a native english speaker, but I can tell of the german expressions:

The german "einige" is the same as the english "a few"
The german "ein paar" is the same as "einige" and should 2 - 4 or a small amount of a big quantity
The german "ein Paar" (with a capital letter) is exactly 2, a couple.
"ein Paar Schuhe" are two matching shoes, but "ein paar Schuhe" can be more shoes not matching any other.

So I think that "a pair" in english has the tow meanings of "ein paar" and "ein Paar" in German language, it could be an old German heritage.

I'm a German native speaker myself (well Austrian German at least), and so aware of this. However, it is not completely the same, because the term "ein Paar" will always refer to objects or subjects, which are naturally coming in pairs (like socks or dancers), but never for instance "ein Paar Tage", meaning exactly two days, only "ein paar Tage", meaning a few days, maybe even just two, up to a week.

On the other hand, I'm not so sure of the German heritage anyway, since I started learning Italian, and there you have the term "un paio", which is always spelled without a capital letter, but can mean either "ein Paar" or "ein paar" as well. So this is definitely possible in multiple languages. But it seems to me, that "a couple" meaning just two, even for expressions rather not coming in pairs, is in English at least more likely to be considered correct, although "a couple" meaning a few is also occasionally used by native speakers. (Which my brother-in-law and the guy from BFI gave me the impression, would not be the case.)

coyote · « **Reply #10 on:** June 02, 2015, 05:24:18 AM »

Don't forget..

A 'handful' is usually five. 'Some' can mean between 3 and 7 but is relative, like CK brings up.

I'm forgetting some, too.

Paul · « **Reply #11 on:** June 02, 2015, 10:46:26 AM »

Found on a random website:

jungleboy · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2015, 10:51:50 AM »

A Scottish woman said handful of people to me today to mean 10. I resisted the urge to point out that 10 is two handfuls.

Of course, it depends on what it's a handful of. A handful of peanuts is as many as you can fit in your hand.

CKorfmann · « **Reply #13 on:** June 02, 2015, 11:24:23 AM »

Quote from: jungleboy on June 02, 2015, 10:51:50 AM

Of course, it depends on what it's a handful of. A handful of peanuts is as many as you can fit in your hand.

Yep, relative.

danisthirty · « **Reply #14 on:** June 02, 2015, 12:05:16 PM »

Quote from: jungleboy on June 02, 2015, 10:51:50 AM

A Scottish woman said handful of people to me today to mean 10. I resisted the urge to point out that 10 is two handfuls.

Of course, it depends on what it's a handful of. A handful of peanuts is as many as you can fit in your hand.

You mean you can fit five people in each hand JB? How big are your hands (or were they just really small people)?