Author Topic: Castles and the wagon  (Read 3270 times)

Offline Guy

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Castles and the wagon
« on: January 14, 2015, 12:00:20 AM »
Hello,

I was reading over the new edition of the CAR and found something that I didn't quite understand.

On page 119 of the CAR it states:

"A player can use the wagon effect to build a castle..."

Here's my query  - What does this mean?  I can only see 3 options:

1) Does it mean that if a CFRF semi-circle city tile is used to create an unoccupied 2-tile city and completes a road with a wagon on it the wagon can occupy the completed city (breaking the rules for the wagon only occupying incomplete features) so long as a castle is created (as a castle would be an unoccupied feature)
2) Same as above only with an occupied city.  The occupied city is scored first then the wagon moves in.
3)Simply that a wagon can occupy a castle - if so then why have the word effect in the sentence?

Of course I might have got this entirely wrong.  Any clarifications would be very welcome!

Thanks

Guy

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1447.0
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Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Castles and the wagon
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 03:28:59 AM »
You're right with 1) I think. When a castle is build, it is not completed until another feature on the six tiles surrounding is completed. Don't score the city at that moment. By the way: You can move the wagon after scoring the castle if there is another uncompleted road.

2) is not possible

3) A wagon can occupy a castle - but that's without that sentence, too.



Offline Guy

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Re: Castles and the wagon
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 07:34:08 AM »
I guess it comes down to the sentence "the occupier may choose to complete and score it in the usual way or to convert it into a castle".

This sentence suggests that you cannot create a castle if the two semi circle town is not occupied, (I guess to stop people increasing the value of farms when you have no followers left in your supply).

If the wagon can move into a completed 2 tile city it must either break the rules for a wagon only being allowed to enter an unoccupied incomplete feature or the rule that a castle can only be created by the occupier of the two tile city when the two tile city is created.

That wagon effect sentence address with the rules!

Offline Carcking

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Re: Castles and the wagon
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 06:06:45 PM »
It would seem that they are saying; as long as the intent is to form a Castle, it is legal for the Wagon to drive onto the town. It is considered an incomplete feature as long as the intent is followed through.

Since Wagons don't relocate until after the scoring phase, the town remains open through the scoring phase.

So the town sits empty and unscored through the scoring phase. It would appear as though no one claimed it. Then the player can drive onto it and place his castle. Interesting...
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline DLloyd09

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Re: Castles and the wagon
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2015, 06:25:59 PM »
But the town still needs to have been completed by the tile that was just played, correct -- and the wagon is on an attached road that is also completed by placement of that tile? I suppose otherwise what's to distinguish between a town that's empty and already been scored and a town that hasn't?

Offline Carcking

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Re: Castles and the wagon
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 02:32:20 AM »
Correct, otherwise the castle itself would not be a legal placement. It has to be on the just placed tile.

Offline obervet

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Re: Castles and the wagon
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 02:19:10 PM »
I think kettlefish needs to weigh in, but based on my look at the German rules, it appears that the word "effect" isn't even in there. The German "Eine burg kann auch mit Wagen gebaut werden" translates as "A castle can also be built with a wagon."

Thus, I think they are simply saying that a wagon can occupy a castle like a normal follower. I don't believe this is trying to change the turn order. It looks like "wagon effect" just wasn't a very good translation. 


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