Author Topic: Compatible Graphics in Games?  (Read 6459 times)

Offline asparagus

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Compatible Graphics in Games?
« on: June 08, 2015, 11:51:48 PM »
(Udo Schmitz) will present us the new Carcassonne StarWars.

Should I be pleased or upset that HiG is producing stuff I have no interest in buying? But their business model looks so wrong to me. I have never played magic the gathering but as I understand the following have been achieved:

1.) All cards are compatible (albeit not all of them at tournament level)
2.) No cards that have been privately sold have had their market value undermined by fiat from the central company.
3.) All cards have consistent art work.
4.) They managed to restructure the economy of the game without upsetting purchasers of previous cards.
5.) The business model is sustainable fueling interest both in cards as part of a game and as collectibles.

Why can't we just have one consistent artwork and game mechanics framework with a mixture of rare  artistically collectible cards and mechanically interesting expansions?

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1851.0
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 11:58:46 PM by asparagus »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2015, 01:08:50 AM »
Carcassonne-StarWars

It is a Spin-Off game.
This games has the generell game mechanics of our beloved Carcassonne and some new mechanics especially for this theme, but the theme "universe and stars" can't have the same graphics.

This spin-off game is nice for StarWars fans - they collecting all things about StarWars.
That means new costumer for the game Carcassonne.


Offline Paul

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2015, 01:44:57 AM »
One might look at it from this perspective:

Monopoly
Monopoly - Star Wars
Monopoly - The Simpsons
Monopoly - Transformers
etc.

This may be a new hope to expand the themes so fans can get the game versions they want. I don't think they try to be an empire and strike back at fans. It's more of a return to a business model that has worked for others.

Hope this helps!
World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline Hounk

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 02:26:45 AM »
3.) All cards have consistent art work.
Don't know about Magic, but did try out Dominion a wile ago online, and while the game itself was good, I was very surprised, what kind of a mixed bag was the artwork. Some of the cards are pretty wonky (like "Militia"!), others are fine, but in very different stiles.
This spin-off game is nice for StarWars fans - they collecting all things about StarWars.
That means new costumer for the game Carcassonne.
I must say, I rather doubt that, because there are so many Star Wars merchandises, it is virtually impossible, to collect everything. And there are also many, many board game implementations (Monopoly, Labyrinth, Risk, you name it) and "original" board and miniatures games as well, so I think, a Star Wars fan, uninterested in board games, will not very likely get the "SW Carcassonne", just because it's SW. However, it might be a good birthday present or gift for somebody, you know is much into Star Wars and want to "hook" with Carcassonne.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 03:03:42 AM by Hounk »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 03:25:31 AM »
Dominion

the playing cards:
Yes - so many different graphic artists for one game...
pro: many new graphic artists get the choice to create some card graphics for a great game and become well known in the szene.
contra: the game looks not consistent and for my feeling - it looks if you put many different card games together...

the boxes:
Since that time that HiG is no more the license partner from RGG - the boxes have become a new design here in germany.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 04:37:39 AM by kettlefish »

Offline danisthirty

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 04:23:35 AM »
(Udo Schmitz) will present us the new Carcassonne StarWars.

Should I be pleased or upset that HiG is producing stuff I have no interest in buying? But their business model looks so wrong to me.

I'm no business expert and I don't have a lot of experience relating to boardgame publishing either (OK, none). I do agree that HiG seem to be in a strange position at the moment though, for various reasons. But what we don't know (because they have no reason to tell us) is where they intend to go with it all and what their future plans are.

The fact that Carcassonne is still going strong today is testament to the amount of time, effort and money that HiG have put into it and even if I don't agree with some of the decisions they've made, I have every confidence that they know what they're doing with it all a lot better than I would, and will continue to keep Carcassonne alive in all the ways they're able to do so. I'm sure there will be no shortage of people to point out where they went wrong if they ever did have to kill off Carcassonne (the game rather than the place) but some of these people have been hanging around for years and are still waiting for their opportunity to speak up...

So if this means creating spin-off games that don't appeal to me but which HiG think will increase the size of their fan-base then I'm all for it. Having seen a brief demonstration of the game at the UK Games Expo I might even buy it and play it!  :o

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2015, 04:27:14 AM »
I love Star Wars and own two different copies of SW Risk, a copy of Monopoly, and a few smaller SW games. I also have a ton of the old Decipher SWCCG, Young Jedi CCG and Jedi Knights CCG. Star Wars Carcassonne is the first spin-off that I haven't hesitated to want to buy in many years.

Regarding matching graphics, a lot of games change them over time. Dixit changed artists for Odyssey and every expansion since. I can't stand the artwork of Ascension but I love the game itself. Dominion is great and I like most of its art except for the really cartoony art used every once in a while.

Kettlefish, the Dominion boxes you are seeing are the ones that have been used in the U.S. since the beginning. When Rio Grande took over direct distribution, they made their U.S. boxes international. So in a sense they are an old design and Germany always had the new design. I always liked the German art better, though...except for Cornucopia. Cornucopia's box art is very stylish and definitely my favourite of the bunch.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 04:42:49 AM »
Carcassonne-StarWars:

thoughts-questions:

- how does a small comany like HiG become a license from Disney world?
- how does a game like Carcassonne become a part in the shops from Disneyland and Disneystore?
- how does a game become a fan article for a movie?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 04:46:49 AM by kettlefish »

Offline Paul

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 04:47:19 AM »
Seems my post got neglected or maybe misinterpreted.

The idea of Star Wars Carcassonne has nothing to do with matching tiles, thus comparing art is a bit moot. It's a another theme for Carcassonne.

Like Monopoly the game itself is pretty much the same but uses different a theme for each version so people can enjoy the core game with a change of scenery.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 06:56:43 AM by Paul »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2015, 05:06:12 AM »
Settlers of Catan

the tiles and figures in the first print were different.
The game had wooden figures and the tiles were smaller.

since the 2nd printing the tiles become bigger than the 1st print and the figures are made in plastics.

the graphics of the tiles and the cards changed during the years.
----------------------------
Spin-Off - example:
StarTrek-Catan



Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2015, 06:03:50 AM »
Settlers of Catan

the tiles and figures in the first print were different.
The game had wooden figures and the tiles were smaller.

since the 2nd printing the tiles become bigger than the 1st print and the figures are made in plastics.

the graphics of the tiles and the cards changed during the years.
----------------------------
Spin-Off - example:
StarTrek-Catan
Fun story with the Catan graphics. The 1st and 2nd edition had the same tile size (smaller) but different graphics. The 1st edition had photo-realistic images while the second had pretty basic art. The player colors for these two were different too so that the 1st and 2nd edition could be combined to create a 5-8 player game. Starting with the 3rd edition, everything got bigger, the art changed again, and in Germany the pieces switched from plastic to wood.

Mayfair Games in the US kept the wood pieces of the 2nd edition (they never had the 1st) and decided to create their own tile art separate from Kosmos' (incidentally, the tile sizes ended up being about 1mm larger, too). They did the same thing with the 4th edition, with different art in the US and Germany. The current 5th edition, released just this year, is the first time that the art for the tiles is the same. However, the German version still has plastic pieces and the US wooden pieces and the tile sizes are still off by about 1mm since the two companies maintained the same printers and only changed the art.

Thus, between Germany and the US, there are seven different art prints for the seven basic types of terrain hexes, which is pretty crazy. Talk about incompatibility between editions! (Although technically the hex sizes since the 3rd edition are all compatible between versions.)

Offline Decar

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2015, 06:15:59 AM »
If I recall correctly, Disney contacted HiG about the possibility of a Star Wars version.

Offline Hounk

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 06:28:46 AM »
Then there is yet another version of Catan with a Klingon as the robber. ;D

As far as I know, graphical changes between 4th and 5th edition are minor. They added a little variety to the German edition, so that not all tiles of a resource are exactly the same, and changed the dessert as well, which I think was a good idea. I like the artwork of my 4th edition game (the plastic pieces and other aspects far less), but thought, the hill used there for the desert was somehow confusing with the ore tiles.

What I keep wondering, I read somewhere, that 4th edition US version not only had different resource tiles, but also the pirate tokens from "Explorers & Pirates" differed, which seemed to be a rather dumb idea, because with a little knowledge of the game material, you knew, which token has which number on it. So, I'm quite curious, if they integrated this as well into the new German edition. (Although I would never consider it, "upgrading" my game anyway.)

Offline Rosco

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Re: Compatible Graphics in Games?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2015, 09:43:17 AM »
Decar - you are right.  The German director of publishing and promotion for Disney is a big carcassonne fan and contacted them  to make a star wars version to help to promote both carcassonne and the new star wars film.
Just lay the damn tile!


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