Author Topic: Can you get Message when you get negative points?  (Read 1371 times)

Offline Bumsakalaka

  • Count Chevalier
  • **
  • Posts: 2212
  • Merit: 31
  • Fan of Fan expansions
    • View Profile
    • www.scifi.sk
Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« on: August 04, 2022, 09:48:37 AM »
I know that there was discussion in past about new HiG clarification about messages, that you can by C2 rules get only one message by miniexpansion Mini 2 Messages.


And there was also, that you can't get message, when your meeple or messenger on scoring board moved to dark area (points 0,5,10,...45) for example by payment of ramsom when exchange meeple trapped by Tower.


So in Slovak Mindok Bix Box 2021 is rules somethinkg like this: Active player, and only active player, will get exactly 1 message, in the moment, when after adding points one of active player figures (meaning on scoring board as meeple and messenger) ended on dark field (5,10...)


So just paying some points for ramsom (Tower, Barber-Surgeons, Vodyanoy) is not adding points.
But when you combine some payment and some earning you can get message, but only in situation, that meeple or messenger will be moved forward to higher score when ending on dark field.


Example 1 - To get message:
Meeple on 24, Messenger 43
1. Payment 3 points for Ramdom by Tower - Meeple moved to 21
2. Finish 2 points for road - Messenger moved from 43 to 45
Even that final score if this turn is -1 point, messenger was moved forward by scoring of feature - you will get message


Example 2 - To not get message:
Meeple on 23, Messenger 42

1. Payment 3 points for Ramdom by Tower - Meeple moved to 20
2. Finish 2 points for road - Messenger moved from 42 to 44
Player will not get message, even that meeple is placed on dark field - 20, because he was moved backward and only addition of points was done by messenger.


Why in example 2 player will not get message?
Because rules said. In the moment when after adding one of the figure ended on dark field.
So in our example meeple is already placed at 20, so it is not ending on 20 again.
If we will consider to accept this. You will be able to get every turn points when you eart at leas 1 point, moved with messenger and meeple kept on 0 dark field for whole game.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6042.0
Check JCloisterZone Add-ons with fan expansions and also some Slovak sci/fi projects in English https://www.scifi.sk/en/

Offline DIN0

  • Viscount
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Merit: 37
  • Carcassonne is only complete with 11th expansion:)
    • View Profile
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2022, 11:48:06 AM »
The figure which ends up on the dark space has to do so by gaining points, not loosing them. This was always the case. In the example, the figure which ended up on the 20 did so by substracting points, so no message.

Offline Bumsakalaka

  • Count Chevalier
  • **
  • Posts: 2212
  • Merit: 31
  • Fan of Fan expansions
    • View Profile
    • www.scifi.sk
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2022, 02:20:46 PM »
The figure which ends up on the dark space has to do so by gaining points, not loosing them. This was always the case. In the example, the figure which ended up on the 20 did so by substracting points, so no message.

Question was, that message is reward to earn points. So also in first example was negative balance of points before turn and in time when resolve question to get or not to get message :D

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2022, 05:27:16 AM »
This seemed more clear in C1, since negative points happened outside any round of scoring. In this case, negative scorings could never trigger a message.

However, the clarifications provided for C2 indicate that there is only one round of scoring that would combine in 3. Scoring a feature all the scorings happening during one player's turn. Exception given: the 1-point fairy bonus at the beginning if the active player's turn (Why this? :o).

This simplification leads to a new set of open issues I could not get a proper answer from HiG. One of them is how to deal with negative points and messages, since this could lead to different scenarios when combining scoring negative and positive points during a turn. All in all, the big question is this: when the active player lands on a dark space, is the order of the points scored when positive and negative points have to be combined? Should scoring +5 points and then -3 points lead to the same result as -3 points followed by +5 points if in both cases you ended on the same dark space on the scoreboard?

The conclusion of a previous discussion suggested that the order positive and negative points should be irrelevant, and we should only consider the total balance of points scored by the active player during this turn. Only positive balances would trigger a message.

If scoring +5 points and -3 points represents a total blanace of +2 points, which would trigger a message for the active player. On the other hand, if the active player scores +3 points and -4 points and ends up on a dark space, no message would be triggered, since the total balance would be -1 point.

Any comments on this matter?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 05:29:54 AM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Scott

  • Administrator
  • Viscount Chevalier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3185
  • Merit: 114
    • View Profile
    • CarcassonneCentral
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2022, 10:43:08 PM »
I wonder about the potential scenario where a player might land on a particular dark space, move forward on a later turn, then move backwards on a later turn, and then move forward once again to land on the same dark space. Would that lead to unbalance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2022, 02:01:15 AM »
Unbalance regarding the number of messages the active player may get?

Offline Scott

  • Administrator
  • Viscount Chevalier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3185
  • Merit: 114
    • View Profile
    • CarcassonneCentral
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2022, 08:01:00 AM »
Yeah, I’m wondering if that would be unfair to the others?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2022, 01:57:35 PM »
Would you prefer the active player receives a message no matter if scoring positive or negative points?

Offline Scott

  • Administrator
  • Viscount Chevalier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3185
  • Merit: 114
    • View Profile
    • CarcassonneCentral
Re: Can you get Message when you get negative points?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2022, 10:49:21 PM »
I don’t have any preference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
Question about messages and negative points

Started by corinthiens13

80 Replies
9572 Views
Last post October 04, 2021, 07:55:55 AM
by Meepledrone
xx
You can't always get what you want...

Started by Danci

3 Replies
2470 Views
Last post January 11, 2017, 03:54:00 PM
by Danci
xx
How many times can you score 3 points for a fairy in a single turn?

Started by rfielder

1 Replies
6594 Views
Last post June 06, 2014, 11:26:50 AM
by Carcking
xx
Messenger message 8 question for multiple meeple

Started by Wishgabishgus

1 Replies
2217 Views
Last post July 29, 2018, 03:29:37 AM
by Decar
xx
Builder's Double turn + Message #4 (Add a Landscape Tile) doubts

Started by ac1982

6 Replies
1200 Views
Last post March 12, 2022, 01:10:04 AM
by Meepledrone