C1 wagon travel

[kelderek]

Using the C1 rules...
When a wagon is in a city and the city is completed, the wagon can travel to the road (if unoccupied and incomplete)...
So: from this road to city and vice versa


But how about in this case?

The road does touch the city, and there is a gate...

And this one?


Also, the wagon can go from the city to the cloister on this tile:


...but can the wagon go from the N-S city to the E-W city on this one?






Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6700.0

[Meepledrone]

Using the C1 rules...
When a wagon is in a city and the city is completed, the wagon can travel to the road (if unoccupied and incomplete)...
So: from this road to city and vice versa


But how about in this case?

The road does touch the city, and there is a gate...

The road does toach the city wall, but there is no gate (the wall shows some buttresses). The wagon cannot move betwwen the city and this road.

And this one?

The wagon cannot move between the road and the city in this case. The tunnel entrance is not equivalent to a gate.

Also, the wagon can go from the city to the cloister on this tile:

The wagon can move between and the cloister in this case. They share a surface.

...but can the wagon go from the N-S city to the E-W city on this one?

The wagon cannot move between these city segments.

Please check the exampls and clarification footnotes in this section on WICA:

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Abbey_and_the_Mayor_(1st_edition)#Scoring_3

Foonotes #31 and #35 will be the ones interesting you:

* Footnote #31 deals with roads touching or not a gate, and cities with walls touching.

   https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Abbey_and_the_Mayor_(1st_edition)#cite_note-31

* Footnote #35 deals with cloisters in cities.

   https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Abbey_and_the_Mayor_(1st_edition)#cite_note-35

[kelderek]

I did scour Wica, but was unsure how to interpret things: in some cases you could argue
"Yes, but..."

No need for that anymore, there's a clear verdict now: "No" on all counts

Thank you very much for clearing this up.

[Meepledrone]

Well, the cloister in the city is a yes. It would also be a yes between a road or a city edge and an abbey.

Now you know why thy changed the rules in C2... An elegant principle but so many edge cases and limitations that it became a nightmare in the end. New features ending roads only blocked the movement of the wagon even more, so... new rules and problem solved.

[kelderek]

Well, the cloister in the city is a yes. It would also be a yes between a road or a city edge and an abbey.

True, cloister-in-city was just as an example.
My questions were really about the other tiles.

Now you know why thy changed the rules in C2... An elegant principle but so many edge cases and limitations that it became a nightmare in the end. New features ending roads only blocked the movement of the wagon even more, so... new rules and problem solved.

Yup. Valid argumentation (and also: Hans Im Glück makes the rules, of course  )
Personally, I prefer the C1 rules as they make more sense to me.
And since there won't be any more expansions for me, all edge cases have now been resolved 

[kothmann]

Personally, I prefer the C1 rules as they make more sense to me.
And since there won't be any more expansions for me, all edge cases have now been resolved 

I agree that the C1 rules make more sense, but are they tactically interesting?  I always felt like the wagon was mostly just a regular meeple.  But with C2 you get a lot more tactics, especially if you use the Abbot.

[kelderek]

I agree that the C1 rules make more sense, but are they tactically interesting?  I always felt like the wagon was mostly just a regular meeple.  But with C2 you get a lot more tactics, especially if you use the Abbot.

My daughter has a knack of using the wagon to occupy and finish a road and occupying the adjoining city.
Finish the city and repeat. Almost like a builder