Author Topic: La Porxada question  (Read 1129 times)

Online DIN0

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La Porxada question
« on: January 23, 2021, 06:52:59 AM »
One thing has been bugging me for years. It is this sentence from the first option upon placing La Porxada:
 "The chosen player can negate the exchange, but if so, he or she must eliminate one of his or her followers for the remainder of the game."
Eliminate from where, the playing field, personal supply, or can you choose?
The most likely option seems to be to eliminate a follower from playing field. This gives the other side of the decision proper weight.
If it was only from personal supply, players would most of the time be inclined to always negate the swap - especially in larger games.

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 06:56:37 AM »
The meeple would be removed from the game, so that player plays the rest of the game with one meeple less than the other players...

Imagine it is your large meeple...  >:D
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Online DIN0

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 10:20:12 AM »
Yes I know that. I am asking where does this meeple come from? Personal supply or  the playing field?
I feel like it should be latter.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 10:31:02 AM »
The rule do only say to remove a meeple, there isn't any restriction, so it can be from the playing field or from the player's supply. That's already a high price, especially if that's during the first half of a big game!  :o
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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2021, 11:20:26 AM »
Yes I know that. I am asking where does this meeple come from? Personal supply or  the playing field?
I feel like it should be latter.

The rules stress that the meeples to be exchanged have to be already placed but no restriction is indicated for the meeple to be removed. As a consequence, it can be any meeple either one already placed on any feature or one from you supply. I agree with corinthiens13, in the interpretation.

Therefore, the player may decide which meeple to sacrifice. Take your pick:
* A meeple trapped in a incomplete feature, so no harm done after all
* A meeple placed on an incomplete feature where you have the majority even if you remove one of your meeples, so you can mitigate the impact.
* Any meeple from your supply, normally a regular one.
* A meeple placed on a feature you can afford to lose with minimum points loss.
* You name it...

Note: Added a clarification to WICA regarding this issue.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 11:24:41 AM by Meepledrone »

Online DIN0

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 07:42:49 AM »
Yes, I too agree that the current lack of specification on that part would indicate you can choose. But I was wondering if this was merely another instance of vagueness - which wouldn't be the first time for La Porxada.
Permanent loss of a meeple cerainly can hurt - especially early. Of course the whole thing is highly situational and depends on many factors:
-size of the game
-player count
-combintion of specific expansions
-stage and state of the game, when removal occurs

But perhaps despite his variance, a simple loss of one meeple is an "easy way out" when compared to losing an entire mega-city worth of points to the opponent. That is why I feel like in most cases people would choose that as an instant escape button with very little negative side effects discouraging them to do so.
On the other side - if you simply had to choose a meeple from the playing field, then you would have a much more interesting choice and more things to consider. Pretty much all of the afformentioned points of variance would "even themselves out" and would make both options more balanced.

Do you think it'd be possible to contact the original designer (Oriol Comas i Coma) - I would be interested to know what was the original intention behind this part.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2021, 11:46:46 AM »
On the other hand, taking back a meeple from the playing area can be helpful (finally taking back that meeple stuck on that little unclosable city  :yellow-meeple: ).

And when a player has a "mega-city worth of points", I hope he managed to put a second meeple on it. Otherwise, there's plenty of other ways to lose it to an opponent (dragon/tower/princess/flying machine..., or simply an opponent managing to put a meeple on your city...). You may only have to fight a bit more in order to keep/regain the majority.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 11:56:26 AM by corinthiens13 »

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2021, 01:56:45 PM »
Quote
the other hand, taking back a meeple from the playing area can be helpful (finally taking back that meeple stuck on that little unclosable city  :yellow-meeple: ).
Would it? You still lose that meeple permanently, so you wouldn't get to use it...

Quote
And when a player has a "mega-city worth of points", I hope he managed to put a second meeple on it. Otherwise, there's plenty of other ways to lose it to an opponent (dragon/tower/princess/flying machine..., or simply an opponent managing to put a meeple on your city...). You may only have to fight a bit more in order to keep/regain the majority. 
Yes, but don't forget you can exchange different types of meeples: normal/big; normal/mayor; etc.  >:D Of course it is always better to have multiple meeples in your mega-city, but more than once I was able to switch my mayor into someones metropolis. And same of course happened to me - opponet exchanged his meeple with my mayor which was guarding big city, and stranded it in a worthless suburb with no pennants. Or rather, all of this would have happened if it wasn't for the option to sacrifice a meeple of your choice (which everyone always did).
On the other hand, when we tried the scenario that restricted you to the playing area, it suddenly became a much more interesing choice. I remember one moment when I was being switched out of my city by opponent, but I had to really evaluate if I wanted to negate the effect - seeing as what I had on field at the time was a strategically placed farmer, a monk with a lot of gold surrounding it, and a wagon with traveling potential.

We overall enjoyed this interpretation more because it added depth to the decision-making process and actuall stakes when someone activated this ability of La Porxada.
That is why I wonder if that was the original intent, and the rules just left it too vague, similarly to some other things before 2019 clarifications.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 06:20:02 AM by DIN0 »

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2022, 06:26:29 AM »
I would like to revive the rule discussion on this particular topic. We still do not know whether the rules regarding this tidbit are purposefully loose indicating a lack of restrictions, or if they are randomly vague like the rest of them. Would it be possible to get a clarification from the author of La Porxada like we did in 2019? I think this is important because as I mentioned in the previous post, depending on the interpretation, this adds a lot of depth to the decision, making the expansion much more interesting.  :neutral-meeple:

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Re: La Porxada question
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2022, 02:30:28 AM »
We'll try to reach the author. Let's see what he replies.

For the time being, unless there author says otherwise, you may consider any meeple in play or in your supply.


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