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Messages - Meepledrone

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4456
As promised we now will deal with...

C1 rules (part 2)

2) Scoring after the game.

In order to simplify the analysis, I include below a version of the quiz image highlighting the roads involved in the scoring after the game. The figures involved in the scoring triggered by the German cathedral tile have been removed.



In this case we have the following features and figures to score:

1) The big top
2) The acrobats
3) The yellow road
4) The green road
5) The German castle on tike E2-E3
6) The archbishop on tile C1



Step #1 - Scoring the big top (E4)

The big top is evaluated first after the game id finished.

The big top is placed on an animal token with value 4. So each player scores:

:red-meeple: scores 1 meeple (D5) x 4 points / meeple = 4 points
:blue-meeple: scores 1 meeple (D5) x 4 points / meeple = 4 points
:yellow-meeple: scores 1 meeple (E2-E3) x 4 points / meeple = 4 points



Step #2 - Scoring the acrobats (D5)

The :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple: acrobats will score separately:

:red-meeple: scores 1 meeple x 5 points / meeple = 5 points
:blue-meeple: scores 1 meeple x 5 points / meeple = 5 points



Step #3 - Scoring the yellow road

:red-meeple: (B1) has the majority.

The yellow road is incomplete as it ends at a tunnel entrance that is not connected (blue tunnel token on tile A2). As the road has a inn, this means its core feature score will be 0 points per tile but, as the Mage is placed on it, it will get bonus points after all.

Note: The Mage only takes into account tiles, so it is not affected by German cathedrals when they have multiple road segments connected to the same road. This is not the case but it was worth mentioning it.

Core feature scoring = 4 tiles  x 0 points / tile = 0 points

Bonus points = 4 tiles x 1 mage point / tile = 4 points

:red-meeple: scores 0 + 4 = 4 points



Step #4 - Scoring the green road

The green road is incomplete: It has a tunnel connected by green tunnel tokens but it ends at a tunnel entrance with no tunnel token (G2).

:red-meeple: (G1) and  :yellow-meeple: (G3) share the green road and there is a tie but :yellow-meeple: has the majority since there is a hill on its tile.

:yellow-meeple: scores ( 4 tiles x 1 point / tile ) = 4 points



Step #5 - Scoring the German castle (E2-E3)

This incomplete German castle claimed by :yellow-meeple: is surrounded by 8 square tiles and 2 Halfling tiles, that is 10 tiles. It is also affected by a Little Building (F2).

Core feature scoring = ( 2 points for German castle tile ) + ( 10 surrounding tiles x 1 point / tile ) = 2 + 10 = 12 points

Bonus points = 1 little building x 1 point / little building = 1 point

:yellow-meeple: scores = 12 + 1 = 13 points



Step #6 - Scoring the archbishop (C1)

The incomplete German cathedral with the :blue-meeple: archibishop will score for the yellow, the red and the magenta roads connected to the German cathedral tile.

Note: Each road must be evaluated separately. The yellow road is incomplete and has an inn. The red road is completed and has an inn. The magenta road is incomplete and is just a road segment on the German cathedral tile.

- Yellow road: It will score 0 point / tile as it is an incomplete road with an inn. The Mage bonus is not considered.

Score for the yellow road = ( 3 tiles + 1 road segment ) x 0 points / tile = 4 x 0 = 0 points

- Red road: It will score based on its number of tiles and road segments on the German cathedral tiles. Its score will be affected by an inn (F3) and three Little Buildings (B3, C4 and F2).

Core feature scoring for red road = ( 21 tiles + 4 road segments ) x ( 1 feature point + 1 inn point) = 25 x 2 = 50 points

Bonus points for red road = 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 points

Score for red road = 50 + 3 = 53 points

- Magenta road: It will score based on its number of tiles (none in this case) and road segments on the German cathedral tile.

Score for the magenta road = ( 0 tiles + 1 road segment ) x ( 1 feature point ) = 1 x 1 = 1 point

:blue-meeple: scores 0 + 53 + 1 = 54 points



Total score:

:red-meeple: scores 4 + 5 + 4 = 13 points
:blue-meeple: scores 4 + 5 + 54 = 63 points
:yellow-meeple: scores 4 + 4 + 13 = 21 points

4457
It's been a long time but I haven't forgotten.

Here you are the answer to the quiz. Let's score the German cathedral first (this post). Afterwards, we will do the scoring after the game in the following post.

NOTE: This post and the following one answer this quiz reflecting the latest rules for C1 (short for the classic edition) after the clarifications from 10/2015. The answer according to the latest rules for C2 (short for the new edition) after the clarifications from 1/2021 will be provided in two separate posts below.
* The C1 rules consider each tile individually no matter their shape, so two Halflings in a square count like 2 tiles.
* The C2 rules consider occupied spaces when scoring features, so two Haflings in a square count like 1 tile.

Check here for the answer according to the C2 rules:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4369.msg80350#msg80350

C1 rules (part 1)

1) Scoring the features completed by the placement of the German cathedral tile.

In order to simplify the analysis, I include below a version of the quiz image highlighting the roads involved in the scoring of the German cathedral. The figures not involved in the scoring have been dimmed.



The placement of the German cathedral has the following consequences:
1. It completes the red road network.
2. It completes the blue road.
3. The German cathedral is completed.

Step 1 - The red road: This road contains many elements that modify the scoring of the road and add various bonus points provided by various expansions. We have:
A) Regular road tiles
B) Three halfling tiles (A3 and G5) that will be counted individually
C) Four tunnels connecting separate road sections into one road network (tunnel tokens in black, yellow, red and grey.) Tunnel tiles are counted only once even if several tunnel entrances on the same tile are connected to the road network.
D) Two roundabouts that connect several branches of the road as a single network
E) An inn (F3)
F) Two German cathedrals. The road network ends at three road segments of one of them (C3). Note that those roads segments are counted separately.
G) Two labyrinth tiles. One of them (C2) will also score labyrinth points
H) Three Little Buildings (B3, C4, F2) that will provide additional points
I) Two German castles serve also as ending points for the road
J) A bathhouse (B2)
K) A hill (A3) that will help break majority ties
L) The Witch (E3) that will affect the scoring of the road.
M) The  Fairy (A3) that will provide extra points
N) The ringmaster (D4) that will trigger the scoring of the watchtower. Additionally the ringmaster will also score additional points by itself.
O) The meeple in the Wainswrights quarter also provides additional bonus points per road tile (no road segments considered separately).

First of all, let's verify the majority on the feature. :yellow-meeple:, :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple: have two meeples each on the read network so there is a tile. However, :red-meeple: has a meeple at A3 that is affected by a hill (even on a Halfling the hill affects the whole square). Therefore :red-meeple: has the majority and the tie is broken.

Therefore, :red-meeple: will score the road. Additionally, :red-meeple: and also :blue-meeple: will score some bonus points:
- :red-meeple: will score the Markets of Leipzig points (associated to majority for roads), fairy scoring points (:red-meeple:'s meeple next to fairy) and Labyrinth points (associated to majority)
- :blue-meeple: will score the watchtower and the ringmaster points



Step #1 - Watchtower scoring:

As per the rules, we evaluate the watchtower first.

There are 8 tiles with road segments, including the watchtower tile

:blue-meeple: scores  8 tiles x 1 point / tile = 8 points



Step #2 - Red road feature scoring:

The road has 23 tiles but, due to the presence of German cathedrals, we will consider the road segments of the German cathedral tiles separately. This is important for the core feature scoring (base scoring + German cathedral modifier + inn modifier). Then we are considering 21 tiles + 4 road segments on German cathedral tiles.

Core feature scoring = ( 21 tiles + 4 road segments ) x ( 1 base point  + 1 inn point + 1 German cathedral point ) = 75 points

At this point, the Witch penalization is applied:

Partial red road scoring (no bonus) = Round( 75 / 2 ) = 38 points

Now all the other bonus points associated to the feature are applied:
- Bath house bonus = 4 points
- Little Buildings = 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 points
- German Castles at end points = 3 + 3 = 6 points
- Markets of Leipzig (Wainswrights quarter) = 23 tiles x 1 point / tile = 23 points

Bonus points = 4 + 3 + 6 + 23 = 36 points

:red-meeple: scores 38 + 36 = 74 points



Step #3 - Red road figure bonus scoring:

On the road just completed there are a number of figures that also score bonus points:

- Fairy: It is on the completed road, next to a  :red-meeple:'s meeple (A3), so :red-meeple: gets the fairy scoring points.

:red-meeple: scores 3 points

- Labyrinth: :red-meeple: as the majority on the road networks it scores extra Labyrinth points (advanced rules)

:red-meeple: scores 6 meeples x 2 points / meeple = 12 points

- Ringmaster: :blue-meeple:'s ringmaster (D4) also scores as it is placed on the completed road. It scores for the adjacent circus space (E4) and the adjacent acrobat space (D5).

 :blue-meeple: scores 2 tiles x 2 points = 4 points



Step #4 - Archbishop scoring:

The German cathedral with the :yellow-meeple: archibishop will score for the red and blue roads as follows.

Note: Each road must be evaluated separately. The red road has an inn and the blue road doesn't. This means that the Little Building at tile C3-C4 affects both roads separately.

- Red road: It will score based on its number of tiles and road segments on the German cathedral tiles. Its score will be affected by an inn (F3) and three Little Buildings (B3, C4 and F2)

Core feature scoring for red road = ( 21 tiles + 4 road segments ) x ( 1 feature point + 1 inn point) = 25 x 2 = 50 points

Bonus points for red road = 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 points

Score for red road = 50 + 3 = 53 points

- Blue road: It will score based on its number of tiles and road segments on the German cathedral tiles. Its score will be affected by one Little Buildings (C4)

Core feature scoring for blue road = ( 1 tile + 1 road segment ) x ( 1 feature point ) = 2 x 1 = 2 points

Bonus points for blue road = 1 point

Score for blue road = 2 + 1 = 3 points

:yellow-meeple: scores 53 + 3 = 56 points



Total score:

:red-meeple: scores 74 + 3 + 12 = 89 points
:blue-meeple: scores 8 + 4 = 12 points
:yellow-meeple: scores 56 points



To be continued in the following post...

4459
General / Re: German Carcassonne Forum status
« on: October 20, 2019, 06:26:39 AM »
As I mentioned previously, the German Carcassonne moved to a new address

http://www.carc-forum.de

After a few days, they have also implemented a redirection to this domain from the old one:

http://www.carcassonne-forum.de

This means all URLs using the old domain are working properly now.

The redirection from http://www.carcassonne-forum.de to http://www.carc-forum.de is not working anymore. Any internal link with the old domain will break so you will have to change the URL manually to make it work.  ???

4460
The Marketplace / Re: WTB - Katharer and Russian promos
« on: October 20, 2019, 06:18:29 AM »
Hi Thrawn,

I came across this copy on sale this morning:

https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/product/1969219

Cheers!

4461
Official Rules / Questions from comments on WICA
« on: October 19, 2019, 03:53:20 PM »
Dear all!

I'm including next some questions a visitor to WICA posted on the following page as a comment:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game_(1st_edition)

I think sharing these questions with you may be interesting.


Quote
Good to see this, I wish to see the steps too what is the perfect order to follow.

Eg: phantom interactions with:
- teleport (phantom teleport together to same tile as the meeple, or phantom stay on teleport tile?)

[A1]: When using the phantom, only one meeple can use the magic portal, that is, the magic portal on a tile can be used either by the meeple or the phantom.

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Phantom_(1st_edition)#cite_note-10

Quote
- dragon (phantom has immune?dragon only eats flesh and blood)

[A2]: The dragon can eat the phantom, the same as any other meeple. The "flesh and blood" statement shouldn't be taken literally. It refers to figures that represent a player's "team member or animal" (a meeple or a special figures such as a builder, a pig or a shepherd) or a neutral "character" (Mage, Witch, Teacher, Gingerbread Man). This contrasts with other figures like bridges or tower pieces that will be ignored by the dragon.

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#1b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29

Quote
- artist (can I place 1 meeple + phantom as artist?)

[A3]: Yes, the interpretation of the rules consider that a phantom acts as a regular meeple with special placement rules. Thus, a player would be allowed to place a meeple and a phantom as acrobats in the same turn.

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats

Quote
- tower tile If I place a tower, can I still place phantom on the same tile (or next to it if artist)?

[A4]: Yes, you can do all this.

See the dynamic Order of Play page selecting The Tower, the Acrobats (part of Under the Big Top) and The Phantom to explore all the possibilities:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play

Quote
- builder (when builder turn,can I use phantom again?)

[A5]: If you recovered your phantom during the first part of a double turn, you can use it again in the second part of the turn, the same as a regular meeple.

See the dynamic Order of Play page selecting The Builder (part of Traders & Builders) and The Phantom to explore all the possibilities:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play

Quote
Dragon eats the whole circus, right? Eats flesh and blood, and ruins the tent I think...

[A6]: The Big Top is ignored by the dragon since it is a neutral figure not representing a person. There is no indication in the rules the dragon can eat it.

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#1b._The_dragon.27s_diet_plan_.28what_the_dragon_does_not_eat.29

Quote
Could Fairy move when Dragon appears or moves?

[A7]: Yes, you can move the fairy.

The dragon appears when you place the volcano tile. The limitation in this case is that you cannot place a meeple on the volcano tile itself since it would be occupied by the dragon. Nevertheless, you can place a meeple on a neighboring tile as an acrobat (if you are reckless enough.)

The dragon starts to move when you place a dragon tile. There is no limitation about placing a meeple or moving the fairy in this case.

See the dynamic Order of Play page selecting The Fairy and The Dragon (both part of The Princess & the Dragon) in combination with other expansions to explore all the possibilities:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play

Quote
Captured meeple can be set free after I saw what is on my tile, or have to do before?

[A8]: You can buy back a meeple at any time during your turn, this includes before drawing the tile, after drawing the tile, after placing the tile, before placing a meeple or figure, etc.

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor

Quote
Circus points confusing to me.

If I have a circus, and 3 meeples around, and I place a circus next to it, and put 1 meeple on the road, 1 phantom on the other side road, than the circus score will be affected all 5 meeples, right? Or just the first 3? Freshly placed meeples around the circus get scored? (according to rules: place a tile, place follower, score tile. = I put meeples first, and score the circus after) Seems too much points to me.

[A9]: The big top is scored during the scoring phase after any figures are placed. This means the big top will take into consideration the 5 meeples, including the 2 just placed earlier in the same turn.

See in order to verify the order of play for the big top-related actions: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top

Quote
3 artist stands already and a fairy protecting them. If all 3 different colour all get 1 extra point, and when scores 5 pt each they all get 3 extra points?

[A10]: Yes, the fairy benefits all the meeples in an acrobat pyramid equally. Each one will all score 1 point at the begin of its player's turn. The same will happen with the 3-point bonus when scoring a completed pyramid.

See clarification on Game Figures page: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Figures#cite_note-53

Quote
...What if 2 red 1 blue artist stands there and fairy? Just reds get 3 points when scoring blue no extra points?

[A11]: Each meeple is evaluated independently. No majority is considered within the pyramid.

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_2

Quote
When Circus scoring and fairy stand next to 1 meeple, get extra 3 points than too?

[A12]: This case is not covered in the rules but the circus is not a feature that can be completed - so no reason for the 3-point bonus associated to a completed feature being scored. The big top is scored and moved to a new location when a new circus space is placed. This scoring does not return any meeples to their owners so no feature is completed.

Check the rules about the fairy scoring bonus:  http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_3

Quote
If Mage stand on german castle tile, scores +1 point/ tile, so that is 24 points?

[A13]: The Mage and the Witch only apply to cities and roads. Bear in mind that regular monasteries are not considered in the expansion rules. Why then consider any other monastic buildings or any other feature different than roads or cities?

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile

Quote
Cult next to Cloister, but the last tile placed finish both, than who get points? Nobody or both? I think if red on cult, blue on cloister, and red places the last tile and finish both with it, than only red get points.

[A14]: Both read an blue players get the points. If a cloister and an adjacent shrine are completed with the same tile, both features score the usual 9 points.

Check the first paragraph here: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_2

Quote
If the dragon eats the meeple from cult when the race is on with the monk, but after I telelport back another heretic, the race is on again, right?

[A15]: There is no rule against it. The challenge between a monastery and a shrine is triggered by the meeples on them. So adding a meeple to a shrine or monastery directly or using a magic portal should not make any difference .

See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic

Quote
What do you think?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!

4462
Anything Else / Re: Happy Birthday
« on: October 18, 2019, 01:54:16 PM »
Have everything ready by your next birthday  ;)

4463
He is looking for this type of transparent tower pieces CarcassonneShoppe created some years ago...



Some pictures of other icemeeple pieces here:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2854.0


4464
General / Re: Dimension des tuiles
« on: October 15, 2019, 02:30:01 PM »
I couldn't find anything related to your question but the 35 x 35 mm tiles in the Demo Spiel or Carcassonne for Two, for example, make me think the tile size is an arbitrary decision that is also linked to the size of the meeples.

My intuition tells me that, in the end, it may be related to the trade-off between production cost per unit vs. perceived value and therefore a "reasonable" sale price according to the latter. You can also see this reflected in the size of the boxes vs. their actual content... specially with Big Boxes.

4465
Hi dronedrone!

I just checked and it was sold out.

Cheers!

4467
Hi blaice,

In Spain you can find odd copies of the Catapult by Devir (rules in Spanish of course). Are you looking for new or second hand copies?

I know it is not the best option when shipping to Australia but who knows.

Cheers!

4468
Anything Else / Re: Happy Birthday
« on: October 14, 2019, 07:32:04 AM »
Happy Birthday, Paul!!!

Hope to see something from your huge tile collection soon!

Have fun and enjoy!  O0

4469
Anything Else / Re: Happy Birthday
« on: October 11, 2019, 03:08:45 PM »
Happy Birthday, Murphy013!!!  O0

Have a great day and a wonderful weekend!  ;D

4470
I asked him to create a topic on all this but he is just keeping you waiting to make you all beg.  :o

I'm serious now. He will do it when he finds the time. He is eager to share his lessons learned. ^-^

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