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Messages - Meepledrone

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Enjoy your brand new C1 Exp. 9!

Disfruta de tu flamante nueva copia de Exp. 9 en C1. Esto de ver una foto de una copia de Devir es emocionante. ^-^

General / Re: The Markets of Leipzig on CundCo
« on: Today at 01:09:58 AM »
I asked them and they don't have any plans to re-release Markets of Leipzig ot The Labyrinths in C3... But we all know this may change in the future.

Anything Else / Re: Happy Birthday
« on: Today at 01:07:54 AM »
Happy Birthday, @Sinscerly!!!

Hope you have a great and fun day!!! See you in Essen!!!

:gray-meeple: :violet-meeple: :pink-meeple: :orange-meeple: :white-meeple: :brown-meeple: :neutral-meeple: :yellow-meeple: :black1-meeple: :blue-meeple: :green-meeple: :red-meeple:  :gray-meeple: :violet-meeple: :pink-meeple: :orange-meeple: :white-meeple: :brown-meeple: :neutral-meeple: :yellow-meeple: :black1-meeple: :blue-meeple: :green-meeple: :red-meeple:

:orange-meeple: :white-meeple: :brown-meeple: :neutral-meeple: :yellow-meeple: :black1-meeple: :blue-meeple: :green-meeple: :red-meeple: :gray-meeple: :violet-meeple: :pink-meeple:

Anything Else / Re: Happy Birthday
« on: Today at 01:00:53 AM »
That sounds lovely, @kettlefish ! Great to hear you had such a great time!

The use of "you" in C2 is a rather ambiguous, since readers may understand "you" represents the active player (i.e. the player placing the tile triggering the castle scoring), but the rules are referring to the player scoring for a castle (i.e. the castle owner).:

* If a tile is placed that causes multiple features that are neighboring your castle to be completed at the same time, you decide which of them to receive points for. A castle can only get points from one single feature.
* Two or more incomplete castles may be standing next to each other. If one of them scores points, it will be considered as a completed feature for the adjacent castles. All the castle owners receive the same number of points.

C1 is clearer, indicating the decision is made by the castle owner stright away:

* Should the placement of a tile simultaneously complete more than one structure adjacent to the castle, the occupier of the castle may decide which of them to receive points for. A castle receives points for only one completed structure.
* As a town which is converted into a castle is not considered to have been completed, it is possible for two occupied castles to be located next to each other. In this case, when one of the castles score points, it counts as a completed structure for the other, and both receive the same points.

So the active player may not be involved at all in the decision. They issue is I commented earlier is not covered in the rules: What if the a tile placement completes multiple features  triggers the scoring of two castles which may score the same points but the castle owners do not agree on which feature to pick? Who is the referee in this case?

IMO, the 2x2 starting tile is in fact 4 square, normal tile. Right?

The key are the missing lines between the square spaces. This is a long-standing discussion with HiG as I understood from @kettlefish. The German castle tiles had a line splitting the tile into two halves in the beginning,  but it was later removed on purpose.

For computing flying machine trajectories, tower ranges and German monastery scoring, they are considered as 4 individual tiles. For placing meeples, capturing meeples with a tower, or eating meeples with the dragon, whe should consider the tile whole tile, the same as with German castles.

This is one of the dualities/ambiguities I wanted to get clarified with HiG when dealing with:
* Watchtowers scoring for roads/cities (consider a square space) [1]
* Watchtowers scoring for meeples (consider whole tiles) [2]
* The big top scoring for meeples (consider whole tiles) [2]
* The Pilgrimage route scoring tile bonus scoring for roads (considers a squares space) [1]
* The Hermit Monastery scoring tiles penalty scoring for cities (considers a square space) [1]
* Castles scoring for features in their fief (consider a square space) [3]

[1] As clarified for Exp. 11 & Halflings
[2] As clarified for Exp. 3 & 4
[3] Fiefs in C2 should consider square spaces to be consistent with the scoring of monasteries, Exp. 11 & Halflings.

Note that a whole tile can be:
* A square tile
* One single triangluar tile in a square space
* Two triangular tiles in a square space
* A double-sized tile
* A 2x2 tile

Note also that a square space can be:
* A space occupied by a square tile
* A space occupied by one single triangular tile
* A space occupied by two triangular tiles
* A space occupied by one half of a double-sized tile
* A space occupied by one fourth of a 2x2 tile

Do you agree?

Official Rules / Re: Can bridges lead to an open field?
« on: September 29, 2022, 03:10:04 PM »
There are many key nuances, important tiny details and edge cases hidden all over the rules... A maze within a maze.

Disclosing and exploting all these details is part of the fun.

Once a castle is triggered, you takes its meeple off. It can't be triggered twice. So that's 10 points for gray, and 5 for green.
Well, it will be maybe better to make different example.
Imagine two castles and by placed tile you finish two different features, lets say 2 points road and 5 points road.
Active player will tell, which road is scored first. So if he decided to score 2 tiles road first, castles will scores just 2 points. But if 5 tiles road, castles will score 5 points.
Question is @Meepledrone What if in this situation is none meeples. Can active player decide to score 2 tiles road first?
(Sorry, I have Carc on cabin, so connot create expample)

The issue here is that the rules do not cover all the cases:
* If several features trigger the scoring of one castle, the player occupying the castle decides the feature to score points for.
* If several features trigger the scoring of multiple castles owned by different players and the castles have mutual dependencies, it is not clarified who makes the final decision... The active player may be involved or not in the scoring.

JCZ decides to score the interdependent castles for the feature scoring the most points. This is a simple solution that may not be the preferred one for some players if playing with messages and/or robbers (some players may be interested in scoring less points in order to receive a message or to reduce the points stolen by a robber). If not all players agree to score the most points, who is entitled to make the final decision? Nobody knows... :o

Ok. JCZ helped me

Ha ha ha!  :(y) :(y)

In this case you have the following:
1) An unoccupied road with 2 tiles ending at a monastery (worth 2 points)
2) An unoccupied road with 3 tiles ending at two villages (worth 3 points)
3) A castle occupied by :yellow-meeple:, triggered by both roads (worth 2 or 3 points depending on its owner)
4) A castle occupied by :blue-meeple:, triggered by the 3-tile road (worth 3 points or whatever points the other castle is worth)
5) Both castles have a circular dependency (both castles should score the same)

Two outcomes are possible in this case:
* Both players score the most points (as in JCZ), the same as the 3-tile road:
   - :blue-meeple: scores 3 points for their castle
   - :yellow-meeple: scores 3 points for their castle
* Both players score the least points (agreed for any reason), the same as the 2-tile road:
   - :blue-meeple: scores 2 points for their castle
   - :yellow-meeple: scores 2 points for their castle

If the players would not reach an agreement (one wants to score 2 points and the other 3 points), who is to entitled to make a decision for them? The active player? This may be an option, but neither the rules nor any clarification up to date cover this case.

I love these cases when you have multiple dependencies.  >:D

In this case you hav the following:
1) Road occupied by :gray-meeple: --> castle occupied by :green-meeple: (unidirectional road-to-castle dependency)
2) Road occupied by :green-meeple: --> castle occupied by :green-meeple: (unidirectional road-to-castle dependency)
3) Castle occupied by :green-meeple: <--> castle occupied by :gray-meeple: (bidirectional castle-to-castle dependency)

Due to the circular dependency between the castles, the simplest thing is to evaluate the features by dependency order following the chain reaction, so a castle is evaluated after all the features it depends on are evaluated (even other castles). Any castles with mutual dependencies, will have to be evaluated together after all the features they depend on are evaluated (unless necessary, I won't get here into those cases where some castles have several features triggering them - so they have to choose one for their scoring :o).

In this case, our sequnce of choice will be as follows:
1) The road (worth 5 points)
2) The castles:
    - Each of them will score the same number of points the road is worth (5 points)
    - They both must also score the same number of points (5 points) due to the mutual dependency, which is also correct by default, since they are also triggered by the same road.

* :gray-meeple: scores 10 points (5 points for the road + 5 points for the castle)
* :green-meeple: scores 5 points for the castle

It may seem a bit cumbersome, but in the end is not that complicated. ;)

News and Events / Re: HiG Fair Action Game '22
« on: September 29, 2022, 12:36:48 PM »
Yep. HiG has these frames in the 20th Anniversary celebration in Carcassonne. @DrMeeple saw 3 different models.

Let's see if we can see all 4 of them.

HiG does not consider C1 in their minds... Let's add a note about this.

[Q4] If the 2x2 starting tile occupies one of the squares adjacent to a completed castle as shown in the image below, how many points does the red player score?
A) 4 points because the there is no mist on the square adjacent to the castle (the 2x2 starting tile is not considered as a whole)?
B) 6 points because the castle considers all the mist banks on the 2x2 starting tile?

[A4] The answer is A. The starting tile is considered as 4 normal tiles [in C2 and C3].

Since the 2x2 starting tile is considered as 4 normal tiles for castles as well, each of these individual tiles will be analyzed separatery to determine whether each tile has mist banks.
In the example below, the section of the staring tile adjacent to the castle has no mist, so the castle is worg 4 points. Any mist banks on other quarters of the starting tile will not be considered by the castle in this case.

Note: The same approach should apply to the scoring of some features counting neighboring features:
* Watchtowers scoring for roads or cities (The Watchtowers)
* The Hermit Monastery and the Pilgrimage Route scoring tiles (The Land Surveyors)

Note for C1: The starting tile would count as one large tile. In this case, the answer would be B, that is, 6 points as the 2x2 tile includes 2 banks of mist.

[Q3] If the 2x2 starting tile occupies two spaces adjacent to a completed monastery, how many points does the monk on the monastery score?  (See image below)
A) 9 points because the starting tile is counted as 2 occupied squares adjacent to the monastery?
B) 8 points because the starting tile is counted as 1 tile adjacent to the monastery?

[A3] The answer is A. The starting tile is considered as 4 normal tiles [in C2 and C3].

This answer is consisten with the clarifications included in the 20th Anniversary rules for the double-sized river source tile and also with the clarifications provided for double-sized tiles in 01/2021.

A monastery completed surrounded by tiles scores 1 point for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 point for each of the 8 adjacent occupied spaces.

Note for C1: The starting tile would count as one large tile. In this case, the answer would be B, the monastery is surrounded by 7 tiles inclusing the 2x2 starting tile, and therefore, it is worth 8 points.

[Q2] Let's assume a city with 2 red meeples and 1 black meeple which has a ghost added to it. The red player has the majority in this case. The city has 5 tiles and 1 coat of arms (see image below):
1) Does the black player score 0 points, or -2 points due to the ghost added to it?
2) Does the red player score 12 points, or 10 points for the city due to the ghost in the city?

[A2] Here you are the answers:
1) You only score if you have a majority. Therefore black does get 0 points.
2) You only get -2 points, if the ghost is with your meeple. Therefore red receives 12 points.

The value of a feature is not affected by the ghosts assigned to the meeples placed on it. Ghosts affect those players with the majority, and therefore scoring for the feature. The rest of the players on the feature not scoring for it will not be penalized by any ghosts added to their meeples.

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