Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: corinthiens13 on November 30, 2021, 04:20:55 AM
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So now there's a new mini https://cundco.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/424/sCategory/107 (https://cundco.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/424/sCategory/107)
The description says:
With this mini-expansion you can score additional points when you finish a street. To do this, you have to steer the course of the road as the signposts show you.
The e-mail newsletter states:
The inhabitants of Carcassonne appreciate your help in showing them the right way. Therefore, for every signpost placed that correctly predicts the next road tile, you will receive extra points when completing your road.
Seems like a good expansion to increase roads attractivity :yellow-meeple:
I hope we're gonna get official rules soon ! :o
(https://cundco.de/media/image/18/d1/33/Wegweiser1_600x600.jpg)
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Seems you built the road depens on the sign of the tile (curve etc…) Nothing special I think for this expansion… emoji code20]
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This could be the first expansion that makes me want to have C2 art! :(
Nothing special I think for this expansion… emoji code20]
It’s great to hear diverse points of view! :D
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Hahahhaha Well more signs on tiles like mini 20th anniversary… And in this case all about roads… I don’t see anything special but maybe the rules has something more…
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What I find lacking in this expansion is the thematic integration. Carcassonne has great appeal because of the landscape that is slowly created at the playfield. The first expansion, for instance, taps into this in a very successful manner, by depicting inns and cathedrals, instead of having some random multiplier icon denoted on the tiles. Same can be said about other features of various expansions, such as the gardens, wine fields, watch towers, fruit bearing trees, circus, etc.
So why plain arrows? The expansion is called the signposts. Show us a signposts! That shouldn’t be so hard, right?
What do others think?
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I totally agree with you carcie, they could have done a much nicer and integrated design!
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Totally agree too…
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Where is the middle point between the baroque arrows of the 20th Anniversary expasnions and the minimalistic ones of The Signposts (without a signpost at all)?
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I like the idea of this mini, but I agree with all of you that the arrows are not spectacular.
I don't know, but I feel that since HiG hired the new designer, everything is quite different in the game's aesthetics.
- Font face
- Disproportionate watermarks
- Rounded titles
- Clipped cities
- Mamuts and sandwiches :o
- Blue arrows in the 20th anniv. :-X
- Flag of inexistent country
- Over cartoonized new cover (I really like it! ;D )
- etc.
Maybe I am wrong, and the changes are more influenced by the "new" leadership of HiG; who knows.
I know it is easy to criticize and difficult to create, but I always remember that we are customers. Same in a restaurant, you complain if your food is cold or if it looks awful. The difference is that here they can easily ignore us ;D
Some of you could correctly think that there's no accounting for taste (as I show in my poll in BGG). However, introducing significant changes in a product intended to be collectible is a risky strategy. They experimented with the new art and faced a lot of complaints about it; even KJW prefers the old art, as he mentioned in an interview. Perhaps they did not learn about it, or maybe they realized that this is an excellent way to make more money :o
:red-meeple:
Certainly, this is what most of us expected: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3497.0
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I like the idea of this mini, but I agree with all of you that the arrows are not spectacular.
I don't know, but I feel that since HiG hired the new designer, everything is quite different in the game's aesthetics.
- Font face
- Disproportionate watermarks
- Rounded titles
- Clipped cities
- Mamuts and sandwiches :o
- Blue arrows in the 20th anniv. :-X
- Flag of inexistent countries
- Over cartoonized new cover (I really like it! ;D )
- etc.
Maybe I am wrong, and the changes are more influenced by the "new" leadership of HiG; who knows.
I know it is easy to criticize and difficult to create, but I always remember that we are customers. Same in a restaurant, you complain if your food is cold or if it looks awful. The difference is that here they can easily ignore us ;D
Some of you could correctly think that there's no accounting for taste (as I show in my poll in BGG). However, introducing significant changes in a product intended to be collectible is a risky strategy. They experimented with the new art and faced a lot of complaints about it; even KJW prefers the old art, as he mentioned in an interview. Perhaps they did not learn about it, or maybe they realized that this is an excellent way to make more money :o
:red-meeple:
This is what most of us expected: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3497.0
Totally right. Your post is gold!
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Flag of inexistent countries?
If you're talking about Hong Kong's flag on the spiel 21 tile, well... It may not be a country, but placing it among other countries flags cannot be a mistake, it is a significant symbol :yellow-meeple:
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It should be in the singular, not plural (country). And no, it is not about HK, it was one weird flag that none of us in the discord channel could address which country represents
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This could be the first expansion that makes me want to have C2 art! :(
Clarifying: I prefer the old art, for sure, and I agree that the arrows are thematically weak. Though I mostly care about gameplay, I've decided not to start buying C2, so I won't be getting these, even though I think the idea sounds clever and offers some potential to make roads more interesting and relevant in the base game.
BUT, there are those small pig herds on 9 of the C1 base tiles. Maybe "go away from the pigs" works as a simple surrogate for these using tiles...Hmm...Eager to see official rules...
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I am utterly happy for a brand-new miniexpansion, albeit with presumably simple mechanics, but I also agree that it could have been developed as more aesthetically pleasing and complying with an original idea of trying to depict (to a certain degree) an actual medieval landscape. I like carcie´s term "thematic integration" which for a signpost theme may not be that difficult to achieve.
There were apparently serious attempts for this in C1, including cute depictions of tiny figures and structures in the "Siege Trilogy", The Tunnels or, say, Little Buildings, while extravaganzas such as Darmstadtium (or the whole Darmstadt promo) were rare. If a non-landscape game symbol was featured, it was nevertheless elaborated and true to the style as in The Windroses (a miniexpansion that I much like aesthetically while it seems to me quite marginal for an actual game). C2 art brough many cute details too, and also rather crude numbers in otherwise lovely The markets of Leipzig or more detailed game symbols in The peasant revolt. In this respect, the plain arrows in the Anniversary expansion was a disappointment that The Signposts seem to follow.
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The Signpots as for me are one of the worst designed expansions so far, visually, game mechanics are ok.
As most of you have pointed out, signposts are such an uncomplicated and non-intrusive element that they could have been nicely designed showing actually signposts. Some fan-expansions like The Vistas would even benefit from it, which is not possible with floating arrows.
If the direction (left, right, straight) doesn't matter when scoring and for each of the extensions there will be one more point to the road, making them in different colors to add even more variety to the already overloaded graphically tile is at this point a disadvantage.
Markets of Leipzig already had road signs, something similar could be used, even adding some texts as an easter eggs, or a completely new design instead of those arrows.
(https://i.imgur.com/fifog0K.png)
I had a similar problem when creating my first (still being refined) fan-made expansion of The Rock (https://imgur.com/a/OLLr1ND). However, sometimes the use of symbols is unavoidable or simply less invasive.
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I totally agree with you, Snearone! The designs you propose look awesome. Especially the one of the Markets of Leipzig, for the sake of consistency :)
Missed opportunity... it would have given an extra mechanic to each of the Leipzig double tiles as well.
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Missed opportunity... it would have given an extra mechanic to each of the Leipzig double tiles as well.
I agree with snearone. That design is horrible.
Anyway I like that extra mechanics for Leipzig tiles. It can be nice home rules.
@Meepledrone what do you think. Can you add to lepzig and signpost pages on wica this house rule?
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What house rule are you suggesting to add?
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I guess it's quite fast in Gemany ;)
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Thanks totor66 for those images :)
So in the end there are extra points for more than one kind of valid signpost.
I like how they handled road ends, it avoids a lot of problems altogether.
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Wow, thanks for sharing that!
Not sure what to think of the scoring rules. I like some sort of progressive increase, but having the points depend on the number of types of arrows, while clever, seems like it could really complicate decision-making. Taking a long time to figure out how to place the tile might actually help you increase your score.
I hope someone who gets them will write a review…
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PS: There is also german rules and I hoped it was clearer whether we gain points for roads when we have meeples on it OR when we have majority.
The way it's written makes me think you have points just on majority case, each player wins points when he would score roads.
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I hope majority
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I would imagine majority rules as per usual tbh.
The German rules might have it a bit clearer, but when ambiguous I'd go with majority ;D
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Oki. Question not solved in rules.
Is straight bridge counted as continued road when straight arrow?
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Is there ever a case where a bridge scores differently than a straight road on the tile? Obviously farms score differently, but does a road with a bridge ever score differently? I don’t know…
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Also what about tunnels?!
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Also what about tunnels?!
Good. This is good question. Problem is that tunnels is 1.0 and signposts 3.0 :(
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HiG will never answer this.
As per usual now, the expansion is designed to work with the base game only, and they'll not clarify any interactions with other expansions.
I personally would say bridges and tunnels count as continuation of the road. And the road must go in the appointed direction on the next tile, so a straight bridge counts only for the straight arrow, and tunnels don't count for anything, as the road doesn't continue directly in the direction of the signpost (unless you place your second token on the same tile)
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ok rules found by @petul
https://cundco.de/media/pdf/a0/ec/1f/EN-Signposts-rules-final.pdf
https://cundco.de/media/pdf/52/a2/65/DE-Wegweiser-SR-final.pdf
By then:
Road after tunnel continues. but we don't know which direction it means, 0 points for that arrow.
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But I have question for rules.
The roads must not end on the first tile after the signpost.
So road ended on 3rd tile immediately on Abbey / City Gate / Small house.
I think it follow rules, that road not end on first tile but just not continue on second. right?
So points granted!
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HiG will never answer this.
As per usual now, the expansion is designed to work with the base game only, and they'll not clarify any interactions with other expansions.
I personally would say bridges and tunnels count as continuation of the road. And the road must go in the appointed direction on the next tile, so a straight bridge counts only for the straight arrow, and tunnels don't count for anything, as the road doesn't continue directly in the direction of the signpost (unless you place your second token on the same tile)
Maybe this is a job for Super Merpledrone to the rescue!! He will do the job that HiG won’t do. HiG live in a simply basic game rules for less headache….
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The rules for The Signposts use the newest C2 Base Game (aka C3, C2.2 and C.2.5) for example images (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/File:Signposts_C2_Scoring_Example_02.png), but The Peasant Revolts use the oldest C2 Base Game for example images (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/File:Peasant_Revolts_C2_Example_02.png).
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HiG will never answer this.
As per usual now, the expansion is designed to work with the base game only, and they'll not clarify any interactions with other expansions.
I personally would say bridges and tunnels count as continuation of the road. And the road must go in the appointed direction on the next tile, so a straight bridge counts only for the straight arrow, and tunnels don't count for anything, as the road doesn't continue directly in the direction of the signpost (unless you place your second token on the same tile)
Maybe this is a job for Super Merpledrone to the rescue!! He will do the job that HiG won’t do. HiG live in a simply basic game rules for less headache….
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:o
OK. I've been working on these two images to illustrate those cases beyond regular roads...
The rules assume the signpost condition is met if a road segment connects the edge of the signpost to the required edge on the adjacent tile. If the road segment ends on the tile before touching the required edge or does not touch it at all, the signpost condition is not met.
The following image shows examples meeting the signpost condition (case A below) and not meeting it (case B). Case B shows a straight road (dotted in white) that ends at a feature on the tile (yellow circle) so it does not continue to the opposite edge (section dotted in black), and a curved road (dotted in white) that doesn't meet the signpost requirement (dotted in black).
(https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5570.0;attach=16272)
In general terms, the road segment must connect the required edges to meet the conditions, but this connection may happen to include other features that provide this connection on the tile beyond a simple printed road on the tile.
Roads may include a number of features affecting them and even modify their layout at times. The rules cover roundabouts (see case A below). For other features, the same logic should apply also covered in the image below:
* Tunnels without tunnel tokens (case B) and with them (case C).
* Ferries (case D)
* Bridges (case E)
Case C (right) may present many variations when not meeting the sigpost condition:
* The signpost road enters a tunnel and exits on the same tile but not reaching the required edge (the case presented in the example)
* The signpost road enters a tunnel and exits on another tile (the second tunnel token is placed on another tile)
including those where the tunnel entrance connected to the signpost has no tunnel token or the exit tunnel token may be placed on another tile, if any
* The signpost road enters the tunnel but it may not exit (no tunnel token on the entrance or no second tunnel token to match it)
The labyrinth (case F, left) would always meet the signpost condition, the same as the 4-legged roundabouts in Exp. 7 or the Spiel '18 tile. The abbey tile would never meet the condition (case F, right), the same as any edge with a city gate.
(https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5570.0;attach=16274)
Any thoughts?
EDIT: Corrected typos :o
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Seems correct, quite simple to understand in fact. Thanks for those clarifications :yellow-meeple:
And merit for the illustrations!
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Thanks! ;D
Yep. I think the underlying concept is pretty straightforward.
BTW, I already updated the Order of Play and the other reference pages to reflect The Signposts.
I will update The Signposts page next to include this and other clarifications.
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Master Meepledrone to the rescue!! Amazing job!! emoji code3590]
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Thank you! It was my pleasure... ;D
I will add the clarifications to WICA today.