Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Strategy Guide => Topic started by: DIN0 on November 22, 2020, 06:15:13 PM
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This rare tile is infamous for its extremely situational benefit, which more often than not, becomes unfulfilled.
The mechanics of Izbushka are inverse to those of a cloister. It works on the basis of the same "cloister radius", but you are rewarded for the absence of tiles instead of filling up all eight spaces. Since you need at least one tile for connection, this means a maximum of seven spaces can remain empty, translating to 7 points. Starting from 2015 version, the tile itself gives 1 extra point as well, bringing the total to 8 points.
While interesting it is clear that the Izbushka is, even in the best possible scenario, still inferior to the cloister:
-the maximum amount of points is 8 instead of 9.
-you need to trap your meeple for the rest of the game if you wish to get the most out of this tile.
-if completed, you only recieve 1 point.
-it is way too easy for other players to quickly devalue your Izbushka, especially in high player counts.
-the tile usually has to come near the very end of the game for it to be of any use, especially problematic in high tile counts.
-Izbushka is not considered a monastic building, meaning its point value cannot be improved by any of the monastic oriented game elements from various expansions (vineyards, abbot). Likewise, the meeple is not considered a monk, so there is no point gain from WoF Inquisition.
-cannot be used to escape a besieged city.
The few pros, do not make up for the cons:
-Izbushka cannot be challenged by a cult place, which would otherwise force it to either, complete it for a minimal point gain of 1, or it would not score at all.
-there is no need to protect the meeple from peasant revolt, for it cannot affect Izbushka.
-it is unaffected by Hermit Monastery scoring tile from the Land of Surveyors.
-cannot be invaded via City of Carcassone.
So looking at this, naturally the question is "How do I make a use of this tile?".
Up to recently, there has been only one legitimate way on how to do this. You can try to maximize the point gain by "score any meeple" messsage tile. Izbushka would be scored as if it were the end of the game, so chances are most of the spaces would still be empty, if you do this soon enough. If lucky, you could even do this multiple times with a well placed flying machine (the messages are, after all cycled through at a rapid pace).
But that's about it...
...OR IS IT? >:D
The answer dawned on me today. The best way to place Izbushka is to the edge of a Carcassonne Map!
The edges of the map complete everything, yet are not considered actual tiles. We know this thanks to the way the cloisters work on map edges - they only gain points for actual tiles, not pre-printed stuff.
So you can actually place Izbushka in such a way that certain empty spaces can never be filled, thus maximizing points. There are several places on different maps where to do this effectivelly. This method also removes the downside of traping a meeple for the rest of the game.
You can get up to 7 points for a completed Izbushka on British Isles - only 1 point short of maximum 8.
But you can go further. You can break the the presupposed limits you were led to believe this tile had.
On Peninsula Iberica, you can actually get 9 points! More than previously thought maximum.
By placing Izbushka on one-tile island you get a situation where Izbushka is complete, yet all 8 spaces are empty. After adding a point for Izbushka itself, you arrive at a total of 9 point and get your meeple immediately back. You need a bridge (Exp. 8 ) to do this, because the ferry road must be connected.
So the Izbushka is finally equal to a cloister = 9 points and no meeple hinderance. Due to the nature of the placement, you also get +4 points for the pennants and a scoring opportunity for a road with another pennant.
So in conclusion, the best way how to utilize Izbushka tile is to play with Maps and a select mixture of expansions which enable all the optimizations.
Play them on the edge with the least amount of surrounding squares and get the most out of this unique tile!
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Nice analysis!
+1 merit from me :(y) :(y)
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Oh, thank you!
Although I am not sure that many people will make use of it, since not many play with Izbushka. Maybe I will change that a bit, who knows?
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Time will tell... What if Hobby World releases a C2 version of the tiles? >:D
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From yesterday I have all of Russian promos so I can test it ;-D
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Have fun!!!
I love the detailed characters on the tiles... They are brilliant!
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Please do!
And congratulations for this great collector achievement :(y)
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Additional suggestions:
Since Izbushka is just a single tile and still relies heavily on arriving at the right moment, it is best to play with expansions providing some sort of tile control.
Luckily, this goes hand in hand with the tile requirement for the Maps and most of ideal expansions overlap with those beneficial to Izbushka:
-builder lets you draw additional tiles=higher chance of drawing what you want.
-"extra tile" message (messages are already in the previous suggestions)
-bazaars (are already in Exp. 8, required for high points on Peninsula Iberica)
Of course the final and easiest way is to simply play with multiple Izbushka tiles.
Ok, I know most people don't have multiples of this tile >:D, but you can make multiple homemade versions.
Personally, I always play with homemade versions and keep the real ones as thropies ;).
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Personally, I always play with homemade versions and keep the real ones as thropies ;).
With their current "market" price is it only good solution ;-)
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So anyone planning on making C2 version of the Russian Promos just for fun? >:D
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So anyone planning on making C2 version of the Russian Promos just for fun? >:D
Why are youing this to me ;-)
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From yesterday I have all of Russian promos so I can test it ;-D
By the way, do you have 2016 version with all four tiles, or do you have a mix of different versions?
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From yesterday I have all of Russian promos so I can test it ;-D
By the way, do you have 2016 version with all four tiles, or do you have a mix of different versions?
Only printed version as gift from friend ;-)
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Ah, get it :D Well you don't need to worry about rare tiles getting damaged.
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Ah, get it :D Well you don't need to worry about rare tiles getting damaged.
Indeed ;-)
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The edges of the map complete everything, yet are not considered actual tiles. We know this thanks to the way the cloisters work on map edges - they only gain points for actual tiles, not pre-printed stuff.
So you can actually place Izbushka in such a way that certain empty spaces can never be filled, thus maximizing points. There are several places on different maps where to do this effectivelly. This method also removes the downside of traping a meeple for the rest of the game.
You can get up to 7 points for a completed Izbushka on British Isles - only 1 point short of maximum 8.
Well, I'm not sure... According to WICA, "At the end of the game, the player scores 1 point for each empty tile space surrounding Baba Yaga’s hut." But the map's edges are not tile spaces, so I'd say that like for cloisters, they are not counted at all...
And also, I don't know how to interpret this when playing with maps, but "If Baba Yaga’s hut is completely surrounded, the follower is returned to the player’s supply and the player scores only 1 point", so if Baba Yaga's on a single tile Island:
- Either we consider it's never surrounded and so scored only at the end of the game, and worth 1 point only as it doesn't have any tile space around it
- Either we consider it directly completed, but the rules says a completed baba yaga is worth 1 point, not more
What do you think?
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I am 100% sure that it works that way. As I explained with the cloister analogy.
Empty tile spaces exist by default around the tiles. The map only "highlights" the legal tile placement area. Borders of this area also complete everything, which is why you immediately score Izbushka on the edge or the islands.
You can think of it like the well known "table rule" - the edge of the table highlights legal playing area.
Or to break it down:
-cloister scores points for surrounding tiles. The reason you do not score these points on Map edge is you cannot legally place tiles there (but it is still completed).
-likewise, Izbushka scores for empty tile spaces, Map edge guarantees these spaces will remain empty as no tile can be legally placed here (but is still completed).
Either we consider it directly completed, but the rules says a completed baba yaga is worth 1 point, not more
That is not actually true. The rule was added in 2015 and it made Izbushka itself worth 1 point. So you score it as (# of empty spaces)*1+1=point gain.
In case of Izbushka completed by surrounding it with 8 tiles this makes 0*1+1=1.
In the Island case 8*1+1=9
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Here the point is if we can count those areas that cannot be occupied or we should ignore them the same way monasteries ignore them to be considered completed:
Around a monastery or Baba Yaga's Hut, we may find:
1. Map squares occupied by tiles:
* Score 1 point for a monastery
* Score 0 points for Baba Yaga's hut.
2. Map squares not occupied by tiles:
* Score 0 points for a monastery
* Score 1 point for Baba Yaga's hut.
3. Map areas that cannot be occupied by tiles beyond the country border:
* Not considered for monastery scoring as occupied spaces (even those printed road segments or printed semicircular segments)
* Not considered for monasteries as spaces (the allow to complete a monastery on the border with less tiles)
* Should they be considered for Baba Yaga's Hut?
Following the approach for monasteries, I would only consider in the tiles and spaces in printed squares... If so the islands would not be a way to score more points, just to complete a feature faster.
Any thoughts? Too strict?
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Here the point is if we can count those areas that cannot be occupied or we should ignore them the same way monasteries ignore them to be considered completed:
Around a monastery or Baba Yaga's Hut, we may find:
1. Map squares occupied by tiles:
* Score 1 point for a monastery
* Score 0 points for Baba Yaga's hut.
2. Map squares not occupied by tiles:
* Score 0 points for a monastery
* Score 1 point for Baba Yaga's hut.
3. Map areas that cannot be occupied by tiles beyond the country border:
* Not considered for monastery scoring as occupied spaces (even those printed road segments or printed semicircular segments)
* Not considered for monasteries as spaces (the allow to complete a monastery on the border with less tiles)
* Should they be considered for Baba Yaga's Hut?
Following the approach for monasteries, I would only consider in the tiles and spaces in printed squares... If so the islands would not be a way to score more points, just to complete a feature faster.
Any thoughts? Too strict?
Well. I guess, that it's about strict rules. If tiles for monasteries are counted only "preprinted" tiles positions, that online those positions can be counted for Baba Yaga's hut. So arround island is not preprinted tiles, so non keeped empty, Baba Yaga's scores only 1 point for itself.
I like strict rules and similarities in rules which have sense. This is good for prevention of rules fight during game. Because for some player is win of game primary goal of playing ;-(
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Here the point is if we can count those areas that cannot be occupied or we should ignore them the same way monasteries ignore them to be considered completed:
Around a monastery or Baba Yaga's Hut, we may find:
1. Map squares occupied by tiles:
* Score 1 point for a monastery
* Score 0 points for Baba Yaga's hut.
2. Map squares not occupied by tiles:
* Score 0 points for a monastery
* Score 1 point for Baba Yaga's hut.
3. Map areas that cannot be occupied by tiles beyond the country border:
* Not considered for monastery scoring as occupied spaces (even those printed road segments or printed semicircular segments)
* Not considered for monasteries as spaces (the allow to complete a monastery on the border with less tiles)
* Should they be considered for Baba Yaga's Hut?
Following the approach for monasteries, I would only consider in the tiles and spaces in printed squares... If so the islands would not be a way to score more points, just to complete a feature faster.
Any thoughts? Too strict?
As I explained earlier, cloisters do not "ignore" the spaces - the reason they don't score those points is there are no tiles there. The fact that you cannot legally place them there is another matter.
Empty tile spaces exist around every placed tile by default (until filled), so of course all the spaces on the Map edge are considered, they always are. It is the same thing as if you placed a cloister, or Izbushka on the edge of the playing table. You cannot legally place extra tiles around them because they would fall, but you still count all the spaces during scoring. The Map does the same - it highlights where you can still legally lay tiles.
There is no rigid grid in Carcassonne, only a suggestive grid of infinite empty spaces established by a starting tile(s).
So in short preprinted tile space ≠ empty tile space, that would be a false dichotomy.
A Carcassonne Map is basically a specifically shaped plaing table with added bonus of completing any thing that touches the edge.
Of course, if anyone who happens to read this tip does not like it, they can always houserule it out. But I wanted to bring this curiosity into people's attention so they might find more reasons to play with Izbushka and/or Maps. If I wasn't certain it would work, I wouldn't post it in the first place :D
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To me, Meepledrone's point of view seems more accurate with Baba Yaga's rules. But your version could be an interesting house rule.
As I explained earlier, cloisters do not "ignore" the spaces - the reason they don't score those points is there are no tiles there. The fact that you cannot legally place them there is another matter.
Rules doesn't specify why we do not count them. That's a way to interpred it, but I'd stick with the "don't score because don't exist" interpretation.
Empty tile spaces exist around every placed tile by default (until filled), so of course all the spaces on the Map edge are considered, they always are. It is the same thing as if you placed a cloister, or Izbushka on the edge of the playing table. You cannot legally place extra tiles around them because they would fall, but you still count all the spaces during scoring. The Map does the same - it highlights where you can still legally lay tiles.
There's no official rules about table edges, only house rules (or did I miss something?).
There is no rigid grid in Carcassonne, only a suggestive grid of infinite empty spaces established by a starting tile(s).
Right, but the maps changed this game mechanism by adding borders.
So in short preprinted tile space ≠ empty tile space, that would be a false dichotomy.
Preprinted tiles (those with big cities) are counted as tiles for scoring, that's clearly stated in maps rules, unlike border spaces.
But preprinted spaces (called preprinted squares) are empty tile spaces to my opinion.
A Carcassonne Map is basically a specifically shaped plaing table with added bonus of completing any thing that touches the edge.
Ok with this too.
Oh, I love cundco's phrase "This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply in addition to the expansion rules below. You can combine it with other expansions - but at your own risk – that is, there will be no official rules for these combinations." :-\
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Imho it's just better to add a house rule to this tile, making any meeple on it work like an abbot does. If you don't place a meeple after placing a tile, you can remove the meeple from the hut, scoring the empty points. That way you don't need to waste a meeple for the rest of the game for just 7-8 miserable points.
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I hous rule it to be automatically scored at the end of the turn :yellow-meeple:
(for games with some expansions only. It doesn't need any house rule if played with basegame only)