Author Topic: Question about messages and negative points (Read 9713 times)

Meepledrone · « **Reply #60 on:** February 02, 2021, 10:19:17 AM »

Yesterday I had a long monologue with HiG on Discord after the issue with the scoring events during the turn sequence showed up again...
* I included in my posts a long explanation on how the shepherd actions in Exp.9 should be interpreted from reading the rules in English and German and from the Turn Sequence in Big Box 5, where the shepherd actions are included in Phase 2.
* I also showed them how misleading the rules for the abbot are, and also cross referenced them to the Turn Summary in Big Box 6 that shows the abbot removal happening in Phase 2.
* Additionally, I showed them how confusing the rules about the dragon are in Exp. 3 (volcano and dragon tiles) and demonstrated that Step 1b should be Step 2b accoring the German wording of the rules and the Turn Sequence in Big Box 3.

As per today's reply, it seems that the HiG team are going to sit down and discuss all these dark spots in the rules in order to decide what clarifications are needed. I cross my fingers...

corinthiens13 · « **Reply #61 on:** February 02, 2021, 11:02:27 AM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on February 02, 2021, 10:19:17 AM

Yesterday I had a long monologue with HiG on Discord after the issue with the scoring events during the turn sequence showed up again...
* I included in my posts a long explanation on how the shepherd actions in Exp.9 should be interpreted from reading the rules in English and German and from the Turn Sequence in Big Box 5, where the shepherd actions are included in Phase 2.
* I also showed them how misleading the rules for the abbot are, and also cross referenced them to the Turn Summary in Big Box 6 that shows the abbot removal happening in Phase 2.
* Additionally, I showed them how confusing the rules about the dragon are in Exp. 3 (volcano and dragon tiles) and demonstrated that Step 1b should be Step 2b accoring the German wording of the rules and the Turn Sequence in Big Box 3.

As per today's reply, it seems that the HiG team are going to sit down and discuss all these dark spots in the rules in order to decide what clarifications are needed. I cross my fingers...

Well done Meepledrone!

Vital Pluymers · « **Reply #62 on:** February 02, 2021, 01:27:32 PM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on February 02, 2021, 10:19:17 AM

Yesterday I had a long monologue with HiG on Discord after the issue with the scoring events during the turn sequence showed up again...
* I included in my posts a long explanation on how the shepherd actions in Exp.9 should be interpreted from reading the rules in English and German and from the Turn Sequence in Big Box 5, where the shepherd actions are included in Phase 2.
* I also showed them how misleading the rules for the abbot are, and also cross referenced them to the Turn Summary in Big Box 6 that shows the abbot removal happening in Phase 2.
* Additionally, I showed them how confusing the rules about the dragon are in Exp. 3 (volcano and dragon tiles) and demonstrated that Step 1b should be Step 2b accoring the German wording of the rules and the Turn Sequence in Big Box 3.

As per today's reply, it seems that the HiG team are going to sit down and discuss all these dark spots in the rules in order to decide what clarifications are needed. I cross my fingers...

Finally!

Curious to know what will be the outcome...

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #63 on:** February 02, 2021, 02:13:34 PM »

Well. I need to tell, that we start some simple question with usual answer: Out of answer (mini vs. large expansion).

Then Meepledrone bring a star fleet with large guns and pul maybe 20 questions depends on previous answer where previous Clarification were against rules or opened devil's gate to unsolved situations on standard large expansions.

So there is very big mess in C2 rules like:
Step 1: Place Tile (Green part of rules)
- Imagine you placed tile with dragon symbol
- You are able to place by rules a meeple - which is Step 2.
Step 1b: Dragon moves (Brown part of rules)
Step 2: Place Meeple (Blue part of rules)
You can do a lot of stuff with meeples. OPS! (
You can not, because Step 2 was alredy finished because of Dragon moves which is Step 1b
Step 3: Scoring a Feature (Red part of rules)
Wanted to finish scoring of Abbot or Pyramid.
Where they are! I told in Place meeple that I'm scoring them, but Dragon was hungry \nd eat them. They are gone!

So questions started with smile of HiG that this will be easy, we will use Prime directive - "Mini is based for basic game", and we will not answer question about mini in large expansio, that smile is lost now.

Well done @Meepledrone

Vital Pluymers · « **Reply #64 on:** February 02, 2021, 02:20:47 PM »

Quote from: Bumsakalaka on February 02, 2021, 02:13:34 PM

So there is very big mess in C2 rules.

Not only in the rules

NGC 54 · « **Reply #65 on:** February 09, 2021, 06:02:20 AM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on February 02, 2021, 10:19:17 AM

Yesterday I had a long monologue with HiG on Discord after the issue with the scoring events during the turn sequence showed up again...
* I included in my posts a long explanation on how the shepherd actions in Exp.9 should be interpreted from reading the rules in English and German and from the Turn Sequence in Big Box 5, where the shepherd actions are included in Phase 2.
* I also showed them how misleading the rules for the abbot are, and also cross referenced them to the Turn Summary in Big Box 6 that shows the abbot removal happening in Phase 2.
* Additionally, I showed them how confusing the rules about the dragon are in Exp. 3 (volcano and dragon tiles) and demonstrated that Step 1b should be Step 2b accoring the German wording of the rules and the Turn Sequence in Big Box 3.

As per today's reply, it seems that the HiG team are going to sit down and discuss all these dark spots in the rules in order to decide what clarifications are needed. I cross my fingers...

No news?

Meepledrone · « **Reply #66 on:** February 09, 2021, 09:53:09 AM »

No answer to the questions... Just that they need to sit down and discuss the rules since there are a lot of dependencies.

I volunteered to send them a document with friction points in the rules so they speed up the process. Working on it but it is taking some time. Very busy currently at work and trying to update WICA in parallel...

NGC 54 · « **Reply #67 on:** February 20, 2021, 04:17:20 AM »

Still no answer?

Meepledrone · « **Reply #68 on:** February 20, 2021, 04:34:11 AM »

Nope. They said they were busy...

Still waiting for answers to 2 questions about bazaars (no Primer Directive applicable) and a question to clarify the scoring of roads looping back to a German castle.

The deep issues regarding scoring in other phases than 3. Scoring a feature and Messages represent an issue that will require some more time and a thorough analysis.

NGC 54 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 16, 2021, 06:32:11 PM »

Meepledrone · « **Reply #70 on:** March 17, 2021, 01:50:03 AM »

There was an anwer for the roads looping back to a German castle. You may find it here:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5021.msg75693#msg75693

Regarding bazaars, they also provided an answer to the two questions I posted, but the second reply was most strange, so I asked again to verify it:
* The first answer confirmed that the interpretation of the auction rules in WICA. The rules were ambiguous about who starts the next auction after the previous one is completed. Here you can find the rules for auctions just in case:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#4._Host_a_bazaar_auction
* The second answer is about double turns during a bazaar round. Any additional bazaars placed during a bazaar round (no matter if purchased or drawn in a builder turn) are ignored altogether. No problem, however they added a comment about the sequence of builder turns that was weird: "After all auctioned tiles have been placed, you draw the double-turn tiles." So I wanted to double check it, since this would mean that double turns in bazaars are handled in a special way breaking the normal turn sequence for double turns.
I hope to have some final clarification soon and post both answers together.

Finally, about messages we have no more information besides they assume there is one round of messages per turn... What we don't know if this should happen twice in a double-turn... I would say yes, but who knows? If so, It happens after 3. Scoring a feature but should it happen between the Catapult and Bazaars? Easter Nests are scored at that point too...