Quote from: Vital Pluymers on January 26, 2021, 11:40:20 PMQuote from: corinthiens13 on January 26, 2021, 01:12:37 PMI did just realize the message #4 may grant a builder double turn even if the builder did already grant a double turn before:QuoteIf a tile is added to a feature with a builder and triggers the drawing of Message #4, The Message extra tile comes before the builder extra turn. If the extra tile from the Message is put on the builder's feature, this will create another builder extra turn. Thus, the events would be: initial turn => Message #4 turn => Message #4 builder turn => original tile's builder turn. (11/2013)This is evil When combining many expansions, there are chances every messages are drawn twice, and so the message #4 too. We could immagine the following sequence:initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )Message #4 (1st draw) turnMessage #4 (1st draw) builder turnoriginal tile's builder turn (with 2nd draw of message #4 )Message #4 (2nd draw) turnMessage #4 (2nd draw) builder turnAnd it could go on for two more turns if there's a third draw of message #4... I did already have 2 draws of that message while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns), so I guess with 6 turns (sequence above), a 3rd draw of message 4 could be possible...That chain reaction can hardly happen. After the initial draw of your Message #4 tile, you have to place it at the bottom of the facedown stack again. So, that means that you have to draw the seven other message tiles first before you are able to draw the Massage #4 tile for the second time. That will not happen!I know that, but as mentioned, I did already have 2 draws of that message, while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns). There are 4 opportunities to draw messages in a single turn (even 5 if you draw a WoF, peasant revolt or windrose tile) if combining many expansions, and many ways to chose how many points you get (captured meeple buyback, abbot removal, bathhouse buyback, meeple protection...). That means:initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )4-5 opportunities to draw a messageMessage #4 (1st draw) turn 4-5 more opportunities to draw a messageMessage #4 (1st draw) builder turn4-5 more opportunities to draw a messageoriginal tile's builder turn 4-5 more opportunities to draw a message, at that point, there is a chance you got at least seven messages, as you had 16 to 20 opportunities to draw them(with 2nd draw of message #4 )Message #4 (2nd draw) turnMessage #4 (2nd draw) builder turnOf course this require to focus your strategy on messages, but it may be worth it, as getting additional turns is a great opportunity !
Quote from: corinthiens13 on January 26, 2021, 01:12:37 PMI did just realize the message #4 may grant a builder double turn even if the builder did already grant a double turn before:QuoteIf a tile is added to a feature with a builder and triggers the drawing of Message #4, The Message extra tile comes before the builder extra turn. If the extra tile from the Message is put on the builder's feature, this will create another builder extra turn. Thus, the events would be: initial turn => Message #4 turn => Message #4 builder turn => original tile's builder turn. (11/2013)This is evil When combining many expansions, there are chances every messages are drawn twice, and so the message #4 too. We could immagine the following sequence:initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )Message #4 (1st draw) turnMessage #4 (1st draw) builder turnoriginal tile's builder turn (with 2nd draw of message #4 )Message #4 (2nd draw) turnMessage #4 (2nd draw) builder turnAnd it could go on for two more turns if there's a third draw of message #4... I did already have 2 draws of that message while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns), so I guess with 6 turns (sequence above), a 3rd draw of message 4 could be possible...That chain reaction can hardly happen. After the initial draw of your Message #4 tile, you have to place it at the bottom of the facedown stack again. So, that means that you have to draw the seven other message tiles first before you are able to draw the Massage #4 tile for the second time. That will not happen!
I did just realize the message #4 may grant a builder double turn even if the builder did already grant a double turn before:QuoteIf a tile is added to a feature with a builder and triggers the drawing of Message #4, The Message extra tile comes before the builder extra turn. If the extra tile from the Message is put on the builder's feature, this will create another builder extra turn. Thus, the events would be: initial turn => Message #4 turn => Message #4 builder turn => original tile's builder turn. (11/2013)This is evil When combining many expansions, there are chances every messages are drawn twice, and so the message #4 too. We could immagine the following sequence:initial turn (with 1st draw of message #4 )Message #4 (1st draw) turnMessage #4 (1st draw) builder turnoriginal tile's builder turn (with 2nd draw of message #4 )Message #4 (2nd draw) turnMessage #4 (2nd draw) builder turnAnd it could go on for two more turns if there's a third draw of message #4... I did already have 2 draws of that message while I didn't allow two builders turn (the sequence brought "only" 4 turns then, 1 original, 1 builder, and 2 message turns), so I guess with 6 turns (sequence above), a 3rd draw of message 4 could be possible...
If a tile is added to a feature with a builder and triggers the drawing of Message #4, The Message extra tile comes before the builder extra turn. If the extra tile from the Message is put on the builder's feature, this will create another builder extra turn. Thus, the events would be: initial turn => Message #4 turn => Message #4 builder turn => original tile's builder turn. (11/2013)
Theoretically, that may be right, but in reality it will never happen. I rarely have two or more messages in one turn. And to get them draw after draw, I don't believe it will ever happen.
Due to Ringmaster issue with German Monasteries I'm affraid to ask how is solving message: Score smallest monastery when plaing German monastery - I suppose answer will be: you get always 2 points because German monastery is not Basic Game Monastery.
We will see. Abbot looks like points are given in phase 3 by rules.
So bad news. Yesterday we has a long discussion on Hig Discord about rules for messages. We are glad, that this mini is part of Big Box 2017, and for this HiG answered couple of question.But mine conclusion for it is:Receiving Message is bonus for player who score during phase Scoring feature - red phase in printed rules.All other bonuses scored on different phase (Place tile / Place wood) are not consider for get message to current player!So for receiving message is important, that your scoring meeples are moving and finish on dark space of scoring board only in Phase Scoring a Feature (movement before this phase is not relevant).It's mean you your score will be consider if:1. You get bonus +3 for Fairy when finished feature with your meeple with Fairy is assignet to one of your meeple on that feature(etc)You will not receiving message and your movement will not be consider for receiving message:1. +1 Fairy bonus on begin of turn2. Bonuses for Fruit bearing trees - this scoring is defined in phase (Placing of Meeple)3. Bonus for proper placing wind rose tile in correct quadrant (half of board - depends on version of windroses) - this scoring is defined in phase (Placing a Tile)(etc)So big mess. Due to Ringmaster issue with German Monasteries I'm affraid to ask how is solving message: Score smallest monastery when plaing German monastery - I suppose answer will be: you get always 2 points because German monastery is not Basic Game Monastery.
That's true. But HiG devide game to 4 phases.Message receiving is defined in phase 3. So by interpretation of rules by HiG it's mean, that only scoring defined in phase 3 (almost can be started in different phase, but defined in phase 3, like Abbot) are consifer for receive a message at end of phase 3.It's mean, that any scoring in rules written in Phase 1 (tile placement), Phase 2 (meeple placement), Phase 4 (Bazaar action)are not relevant for receiving message.This is fridays statement, so we will see future negotiations
We detected some discrepancies in these clarifications about messges. It traces back to the scoring of the abbot. So we have to revisit them because the interpretation of written rules for the abbot does not match the turn sequence included at the end of Big Box 6 rules.
Quote from: Meepledrone on January 31, 2021, 09:05:52 AMWe detected some discrepancies in these clarifications about messges. It traces back to the scoring of the abbot. So we have to revisit them because the interpretation of written rules for the abbot does not match the turn sequence included at the end of Big Box 6 rules.Thanks for the info. It hope the abbot points if removed during plase 2, place a meeple, is not considered by messages. It'd be strange and more difficult to explain and understand otherwise
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