Author Topic: Question about messages and negative points  (Read 2791 times)

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2021, 11:13:37 AM »
I want to see what HiG exactly said; word by word.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2021, 11:16:43 AM »
I want to see what HiG exactly said; word by word.

Do you have an account on Discord? It would be more straight forward than trying to copy over the whole conversation...

It started as a question about what points should be considered to send a meeple to Carcassonne. And, all of a sudden, the alarms started to blare when Johannes (HiG) said that the acrobat pyramid scoring is triggered in 2. Placing a meeple but it is actually scored in 3. Scoring a feature...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 11:27:17 AM by Meepledrone »
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Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2021, 11:19:25 AM »
No, and I do not want to own one.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2021, 11:24:38 AM »
Sign up and I will pass you the link to the server...

Here you are an invite expiring in 24h:
https://discord.gg/cDMDuaWb

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2021, 11:33:26 AM »
I do not want to use Discord.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2021, 11:47:51 AM »
We detected some discrepancies in these clarifications about messges. It traces back to the scoring of the abbot. So we have to revisit them because the interpretation of written rules for the abbot does not match the turn sequence included at the end of Big Box 6 rules.

Thanks for the info.

It hope the abbot points if removed during plase 2, place a meeple, is not considered by messages. It'd be strange and more difficult to explain and understand otherwise  :yellow-meeple:

Come what may, messages will consider all points during the active player's turn. The only thing relevant to them is final position on the scoreboard of the scoring figures moving during this turn.

Ok  ;)

So we're back at what we used to consider as CI rule, drawing message at the end of turn, and considering any points during the turn?

Also, the total turn points has to be positive (losing 3 points and earning two with the same scoring figure, landing on a dark spase, doesn't grant a message as the figure's total movement was backward) ?
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Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2021, 11:52:22 AM »
Also, if everything is scored during phase 3, I guess this also changes robber points management ?  ???

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2021, 11:55:48 AM »
There is a glitch, because the fairy point and peasant revolts seem to be scored at the beginning of your turn... So you should include tobbers in any scoring.

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2021, 11:57:50 AM »
I do not want to use Discord.

Here you are... Copied and pasted from the Discord window terrible formatting, of course. Read and cry!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2021, 12:08:04 PM »
So we have a little of an issue: We can only ask about Messages/Robbers interacting with the expansions in Big Box 6.

What happens with the fairy point? - Prime Directive
What happens with robber points with other points? - Prime Directive

So my only hope is to clarify three things:
- Determine how the abbot scored and its interaction with the dragon
- Clarify how robbers interact with the scoring of the abbot (if its scoring does not happen in 3. Scoring a feature finally)
- Determine when each scoring event happening in 1. Placing a tile and 2. Placing a meeple take place.

So the abbot is our Obi Wan. And we will have to deal any misunderstanding of the rules on our end or their end.

And I have to revisit all this (see previous post) with them if thy don't ban me in the process.
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5016.msg74414#msg74414

I pushed them hard to get all the clarifications about halfling and the double-sized tiles. I'll be in their black list sooner or later. :o

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2021, 12:10:10 PM »
The Abbot is considered part of the Base Game by HiG...

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2021, 12:19:08 PM »
Yes... This is our only way to deal with the issue. Whatever the response is regarding the abbot, we will have to extrapolate for the other expansions. And nailing down the scoring events in the turn sequence is the corner stone to see how to appraoch the whole issue.

So we are allowed to ask about:
- Interactions between expansions within a Big Box
- Interaction between major expansions
- Clarifications about the rules of any expansion (major or minor)

We cannot ask about interactions with minor expansions... unless they feel magnanimous and provide a hint.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2021, 12:42:27 PM »
Good luck with getting those clarifications  :yellow-meeple:

Based on the previous clarifications, I hope either:
  • EVERYTHING is scored during phase 3.
OR
  • HiG comes back on their previous clarifications and we keep the scoring during turn sequence for every scoring

But it would be strange (and incomprehensible for any non expert) to have some things scored in the phase their action took place, and some other with delayed scoring...

And... If everything is scored during phase 3... Do we score in any order we want, or do we still have to keep a strict scoring order between phase 1, 2, bonus before and after feature scoring...? ???
What of bazar and catapult points? (well, I guess it isn't gonna be possible to get a clarification about this...)  :yellow-meeple:

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2021, 12:59:03 PM »
Not everything is scored in 3. Scoring a feature.

The fairy point is scored immediately in 1. Placing a tile as per Johannes. But he won't respond how this is handled with messages and robbers (Prime Directive). So...

So not everything is delayed until 3. Scoring a feature. And it seems Peasant revolts should be scored immediately as well...

If the delayed score approach has to be applied, the first scoring event should be the wind rose 3 points, since it is the first one associated to a tile placed. But this is a wild guess...

If you check the Turn Sequence in BB4 or BB6, you'll se Messages at the end after scoring, so the Catapult also happens after scoring. Messages should happen after the Catapult then, and before a bazaar.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Question about messages and negative points
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2021, 01:08:09 PM »
Not everything is scored in 3. Scoring a feature.

The fairy point is scored immediately in 1. Placing a tile as per Johannes. But he won't respond how this is handled with messages and robbers (Prime Directive). So...

So not everything is delayed until 3. Scoring a feature. And it seems Peasant revolts should be scored immediately as well...

That's gonna be a mess to apply :'(

If you check the Turn Sequence in BB4 or BB6, you'll se Messages at the end after scoring, so the Catapult also happens after scoring. Messages should happen after the Catapult then, and before a bazaar.
Seems good to me  ;)


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