Author Topic: converting a city into a castle (Read 13036 times)

aicul · « **on:** May 10, 2013, 08:40:11 AM »

Hi there.

First of all thanks for this forum, I am so happy to have found it (just today!) and to see that I'm not the only crazy about Carcassonne

I recently discovered this game and it is already my favorite.

Anyway, I'd appreciate if you could answer my question:

Situation: I have a follower on an incomplete semi-circle city (1 tile).
Now my turn begins. I have "the other half" tile. When placing it I choose to convert it into a castle (and the meeple that was already there goes on top of the castle). Can I now deploy a follower on the field of that tile??

Thank you!!

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=261.0

jvnoledawg · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2013, 09:04:37 AM »

Welcome! Glad to have you.

I believe the answer is yes, because the castle follower was already on the town. The other follower is placed on the new tile. Check out the CAR 6.2, Order of Play, beginning on p149. You are covered by Steps 4A (place a follower) and 6A (convert a town to a castle).

Carcking · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2013, 11:40:44 AM »

First - Welcome to the CC Forum. Great question here.

My instinct would be: No, you cannot occupy a castle and also move wood (notwithstanding the phantom) on the same play. Reason: The player either already owns one half of the town or he claims the castle by deploying to it when he places the second half of the town and converts it to a castle. His wood move in either case is the act of claiming the castle.

This would be a great question for HiG though...

I would say you have discovered a hole in the Turn Summary in the CAR. I don't believe it addresses what to do with a follower already in the first half of the town...and how it affects the wood move.

aicul · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2013, 11:57:31 AM »

Thank you for your answers! I'm glad it wasn't a novice question, hehe.

My first thought was exactly what Carcking has explained. But if we consider that claiming the castle counts as a wood move, then it wouldn't be possible to claim a castle if the city was not owned in advance: Deploying a follower on the second tile to both own and close the city would already count as a wood move itself.
What do you think?

obervet · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2013, 12:10:59 PM »

I would say that it's okay to put a follower on the field if there was already a follower on the first half of the town/city. According to the rules, conversion of a town into a castle consists of placing a castle tile on the town and then placing the follower that was already in the town onto the castle. There's no indication that this is a replacement for the move wood phase. In fact, it seems to come after the move wood phase, as a player could have played a follower to the second half of a (previously unclaimed) town, then converted the town to a castle. I do not interpret the placement of the knight into the castle as a separate deployment, I just read that as recognition that you physically have to move the meeple to put the castle tile down.

Remember, the owner of the town gets to decide if the town turns into a castle -- it might not even be the active player, so a Move Wood phase can't be required to make it happen.

So, in the context of the initial question, the player can place the landscape tile to finish the town, move wood by placing a follower as a farmer, then turn the town into a castle rather than scoring it on this turn.

Carcking · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2013, 12:32:20 PM »

Quote from: obervet03 on May 10, 2013, 12:10:59 PM

There's no indication that this is a replacement for the move wood phase. In fact, it seems to come after the move wood phase, as a player could have played a follower to the second half of a (previously unclaimed) town, then converted the town to a castle. I do not interpret the placement of the knight into the castle as a separate deployment, I just read that as recognition that you physically have to move the meeple to put the castle tile down.

I agree with this and moreso after I thought about the sequencing. Moving the follower from an owned town to the castle cannot constitute a wood move because it could happen to other than the current player. So it makes sense that the wood move to claim the town would come before the castle is placed. Therefore, if the player already owns the town no wood move is required to convert to a castle, and the player still has his wood move available. If he does not already own the town he must use his wood move to claim the town, then decide to convert it to a castle. This settles in my mind perfectly.

This also confirms that 6A of the Turn Summary is in the correct spot and accurate. Thanks obervet!

aicul · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2013, 12:44:13 PM »

That makes sense... now I can sleep in peace, hehe.
This would be a nice observation to have on the annotated rules!

obervet · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2013, 01:42:48 PM »

Footnote 328 in S-CAR v6.3 emphasizes that the conversion of a town to a castle and the "movement" of a follower from the town to the castle does not constitute a Move Wood action.