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Messages - yezhenhan
1
« on: August 31, 2019, 07:53:58 PM »
Hi Meepledrone
Both You and corinthiens13 get the same answer,so it is not a good example.
My suggestion is make a new example with fairy,leipzig,darm church. Maybe you will find your approach is complex.
My opinion is close to corinthiens13.
The castle score is as if you are the owner of the city.Don’t consider any score from the follower in this city(including fairy,leipzig,darm church).Only if you have follower in leipzig,you can get the bonus.
2
« on: August 30, 2019, 03:10:01 AM »
Hi Meepledrone and corinthiens13,
I learn a lot from both of you.
+1 merit for you.
3
« on: August 25, 2019, 06:08:42 PM »
Hi Meepledrone,
You said:
C--A--B and C--B--A are invalid options.
you are right.(if ABC belong to one player)I update my reply.
Thank you very much.
You said:
The circus can trigger a castle scoring.
Why？
I think the circus is bonus for the follower in the castle ,it is not belong to castle scoring. A new circus tile trigger the circus bonus.
You said:
WICA is assuming ringmasters cannot score when placed on a castle as it is not placed on a specific tile.
I don’t think so. For each Circus and Acrobat tile that your ringmaster is on or adjacent to, score 2 points. Six tiles are adjacent to the castle,so six tiles are adjacent to the ringmaster.when ringmaster is in the castle,for each Circus and Acrobat tile adjacent to the castle,score 2 points.If you think he get 0 bonus ,he will say:why ignore my ability?
Scenario 2.
you think if red choose road resolve first ,the blue in castle must only score the road.
It is not right.If all feature belong to one player,he can decide the order,if not,no player can decide others choose.In this case,road and city belong to red,castle belong to blue.Because blue is in the castle ,as if blue is also the owner of the road and city.
CAR7.4 page 100
Should the placement of a tile simultaneously complete more than one structure adjacent to the castle, the occupier of the castle may decide which of them to receive points for. A castle receives points for only one completed structure.
So blue in castle can decide which of them to receive points for. He can choose city score or road score as if he is the owner of the city and road.
The rule write "each" player choose the order,it is not mean only one player choose the order and other player must follow it .
Red get 2 point for road and 3 point for the follower next fairy.
Blue in castle can decide to get the city score or the road score,but he can not get the fairy 3.
4
« on: August 24, 2019, 04:50:18 AM »
Hi corinthiens13
I have not the RGG version.
CAR7.4 page99 ：The castle is only considered to have been completed when a structure (cloister, city,
road, or another castle) which lies on at least one of the six adjacent tiles is completed.
I think this rule is right.Not mention the castle score first,just completed at same time.
You said:
The WICA order of play that states "Each player receiving points chooses the order in which his or her features resolve.
It is right,so I can choose castle later.
You said:
Exception: A castle must be resolved immediately after any feature which triggers its completion.
This rule may not mean castle score first.
For example,city A and road B is in the vicinity of castle C,all belong to one player,all finished.
Now you choose the order for receive points.
It is permitted:A--C--B, or B--C--A
It is forbidden:A--B--C,or B--A--C ,because once you choose A,the castle C must after its score immediately.
Maybe I am wrong because english is not my native language.
If the exception is mean castle first ,I don’t understand the reason for make this rule.Do you know the reason?
5
« on: August 23, 2019, 06:25:23 PM »
Hi corinthiens13
You said
1, Castles are scored first
why?
I think same time if two features belong to different players. You can choose the order if two featurea belong to same player.
You said
2,as if his castle meeple was on the structure and was the only meeple present on the structure.
I think as if he is the owner of the structure is ok. Your words maybe conflict with labyrinths.
You said
2,B. The castle's owner gets the bonuses :Darmstadt churches
I think Darmstadt church bonus belong to the player have most number of followers,not belong to castle owner
6
« on: August 23, 2019, 04:35:34 PM »
Hi Vital Pluymers,
You said
The scoring of the Mage is very clear, one point per tile.
Let me explain to you .
CAR7.4 page17
Just like the basis rule write the owner of the farm only scores points at
the end of the game. As such, farmers remain on the farm for the duration of the
game and are never returned to their owner.
Footnote 24:Okay, “never” is a long time. In reality, some special mechanics in some expansions (Festival tiles, the Dragon, etc.) do allow return of farmers to their owners.
Note the key word special mechanics.Cathedrals in Germany has special mechanics.
Both the basis rule and Mage rule are clear,both can be changed by special mechanics.
GC exception is turn count tile to count road only on GC tile.when you play with inn,other tile is also count tile ,but count road on GC tile.So 2 points each tile -----2 points each road on GC tile.
when you play with Mage and leipzig,other tile is also count tile ,but count road on GC tile,so +1 point each tile -----+1 point each road on GC tile,it is same special mechanic.
You said:
German Cathedral exception only applies to the core scoring of the road, without or with an inn.
You only tell me the conclusion ,not the reason.
If you play some fan-made expansions such as The Lake and CHARIOT RACING. You will find it is hard to know what is belong to core score.would you tell me what is core score?
If you only play the offical expansion,it is ok, because only inn involved,so you just remember GC exception only apply with inn,not others.
But if you play all expansion,you need much new rule to apply many expansions and it is hard to remember for player.You need remember GC exception apply a,b,c,d,e,........not apply f,g,h,i,j,k.
7
« on: August 23, 2019, 04:21:39 PM »
Hi benbever,
I know its difficult to answer the second question from new player.
I read reply 36 by you:
For Mage it feels odd, it gives +1 per tile in the scored feature, and there are literally only 4 tiles. The Mage doesn't give +1 for shields in cities that give extra points. Why would it give +1 for an extra road segment that gives extra points??
For the Little Building it feels odd to count it twice. But if the tile is counted twice for Mage and Markets of Leipzig, then why not for Little Buildings?
Let me explain to you.
1,Mage doesn't give +1 for shields in cities,Mage also doesn't give +1 for wells in roads.So it is not odd.The rule designer write the tile +1 means not including shield and well,he didn't know the new special mechanics like Cathedrals in Germany.
2,GC change count tile to count road on GC tile,the little building is not changed.Just like you have one big room,you change it two small rooms.But the dog in the room is only one.
8
« on: August 23, 2019, 02:12:07 AM »
Hi Meepledrone,
You said：
Avoid the indefinition of the rules have unexpected consequences when interacting with other expansions.
Now I know the reason you choose this rule clarification.
I have played more than 100 fan-made expansions ,my family rule is good with them.
It is very hard work to know what is core feature score?what is bonus?
Even if you can distinguish them, I can not remember it because too much expansions.
So I insist on my family rule until you have clear standard how to distinguish core feature score and bonus.
9
« on: August 23, 2019, 12:58:51 AM »
Hi benbever,
If your answer is Cathedral exception count road, Mage count tile
He will continue to ask you more questions:inn is also count tile,what different between inn and mage?
Please answer the second question by your second sentence.
Every expansion has its key special rule. The key special rule apply all other expansions.
what is key special?
Key special rule with Inn is finish+1, unfinished 0.Add point every tile is not key special,because many expansions add points.
Key special rule with Leipzig is abandon road point for go to the market.Add point every tile is not key special,because many expansions add points.
Key special rule with mage is move a role for add point,move another role for minus point.Add point every tile is not key special,because many expansions add points.
Key special rule with Cathedrals is add tile number for score,no other expansion has the special rule.so the key specal rule apply all other expansions.If you think the key special rule apply some expansion,not apply others ,you should provide proof.If the rule designer know your opinion ,maybe he will also ask you for the reason.
10
« on: August 22, 2019, 07:14:03 PM »
Hi benbever,
You said :
I don't agree. The Mage has very simple rules. +1 point per tile in the scored feature. The Markets of Leipzig is equally simple.
I think it will actually be more difficult to explain that there are 5 tiles because there are two roads connected on the Cathedral tile, while there are actually and literally only 4 tiles. If I was scoring for myself and a new player would ask "why do you get 5 points for 5 tiles when there are 4 tiles" I would not have a good answer.
Let me explain to you.
1，pay attention to the words(I dont like this way to support my opinion,but maybe only this way can convince geek player)
Inn and cathedrals 2 point per tile=+1point per tile when:score completed roads
Mage and witch +1 point per tile when:scoring a feature
Market of Leipzig +1 point per tile when:scoring during the game
Cathedrals in Germany when: special rule when scoring a road
Rule book write the time clearly,note the time is same.The rule is not say when scoring a road but before bonus.
Road score,mage modify， leipzig score，are happen at same time in one feature.
Time order is different with score order.Little building after mage is score order not time order.
2,for play fun with others
A new player ask you "why do you get 5 points for 5 tiles when there are 4 tiles"
I think If you can explain it When you play with Inn.you also can explain it when you play with mage.
(I will explain to him because you play with Germany cathedrals, 4 tile= 5 tile for other expansion)
A new player ask you “why do you get 5 points for 4 tile with inn and witch,but 4 points with mage and leipzig?
Would you tell me how to explain? Can you explain it in one sentence.
In fact you spent many words to convince Meepledrone and Vital Pluymers.
you said :
I think counting tiles for Mage and Markets of Leipzig is actually the easier way.
Let me explain to you.
It is not the easier way ,because you need count again.Count once for me is easier than count twice for you.
11
« on: August 22, 2019, 03:49:07 PM »
Hi Vital Pluymers,
Sorry for misunderstand your words because my poor english reading.I have removed my reply 40.
Today I read the reply from you and Meepledrone,I know both you change your mind . I do not know the reason.
I agree with the opinion from reply 31,33,35.
I disagree with the opinion from reply 37,38.
Offical rule is important,but if it is not clearly,please do not pay too much attention to the words.
If the rule is not clear,what we can do?
1, pay too much attention to the words.
2,choose the better rule for play happy.
I choose 2,because when we focus the words ,this expansion rule designer maybe think we misunderstand his opinion.
why we play the game?
1,study rule.
2,play fun.
I choose 2.
Which rule is better?
Three standard:easy,reasonable,fun.
1,easy
A,easy for remember the rule,for the sake of consistency,if it is not consistent,it is hard to remember.
B,easy for count,because it is not a count game.
2,reasonable
We should balance the score power from different role and expansion. Not too strong,not too weak.
3,fun，count wrong is not interesting. The new player will confused.
The first question.
1,count road separately on all road tile to Cathedrals?
or 2,only on Cathedrals tile?
I choose 2,because it is easy for count and not too much powerful with other expansion(such as tunnel ,labyrinths)
If you choose 1,the new player will do not want play the game with you because you know more rule than him.Most people will count wrong and debate.
We play game for fun not for count.
The second question.
1,Mage and leipzig count tile on Cathedrals tile?
Or 2,count road separately on Cathedrals tile?
I choose 2,because it is easy for remember and count.
If you tell the new player ,road segments counting for any core scoring when a German Cathedral tile is part of the road, but tile counting for bonus scoring features as the Mage, the Markets of Leipzig, and the Watchtowers.The new player need remember too much rule information.He will ask you what is core scoring?what is bonus score?you must explain more and more,he need you find the proof in the offical rule book,you can not find it ,he may disagree with you.he will do not want play the game with you and ask you more question.
Cathedrals road count is special rule,however if the special rule apply some expansions but not some other expansions,the rule is too much special and hard remember.you have no proof to support this new special rule by you.
when you count the road number first time ,it is unchange and you remenber the number,you do not need to count again for Mage and leipzig. Multiplication is easy for count the score.(6*2+6+6=6*4)
Mage and witch should consistent.when you count road separately on Cathedrals tile for witch modify ,why mage not?
why witch is different from mage?It is not reasonable.
watchtower is special，the rule is at least one road ,so though it has two roads on Cathedrals tile,it is 1 point.
It is up to you choose the better rule,if the first question you choose 1,second question you choose 1,it is terrible.the game become a count game.I believe more new player want play with me.
Time is very important thing in our life,spend time for game fun,do not waste too much time for count and study special rule.
12
« on: August 21, 2019, 07:52:41 PM »
Hi Meepledrone， You are genius. 
13
« on: August 21, 2019, 03:12:26 PM »
Hi Meepledrone,
For example：Red A on finished monastery.yellow A on castle next it.Both red B and yellow B on Bookbinders quarter.
I think both red and yellow player score 13(red A and yellow A score 9, red B and yellow B score 4)
In your opinion,red score 13,yellow score 17(4+13)
Let me tell you a story according your opinion.maybe you will understand my opinion.
Red king get 13 points ,so he decide reward the follower,he give red A 13$,red B no money.
Yellow king get 17 points(according your opinion) ,so he decide reward the follower,he give yellow A 13$,yellow B 4$.
Red B say:it is unfair,yellow B is next to me,he get 4$,why I have not? I go to the market ,I help you get points,not red A.
Red king think red B is right ,so give red B 4$,give red A 9$.
Red A say:it is unfair,yellow A is next to me,he get 13$,only 9$ for me, why Yellow A get more 4$ than me just due to red B? Both I and yellow A did not go to the market.
I think castle is powerful enough,if castle can steal every bonus,it is too much powerful ,we should balance it .
14
« on: August 21, 2019, 05:18:05 AM »
Hi Meepledrone,
You said Yellow can only get points from a closeable feature plus its bonuses scored by Red.
I think the owner of castle get the road score just like he is the owner of the road.
Case A:red mayor in city with no pennant,yellow is normal follower in castle.I think red get 0 point,yellow get full city score.
You think red is 0 point ,yellow is 0 point.
Case B:red normal follower in city with no pennant,yellow is mayor in castle.I think red get city score,yellow get 0.
You think red get same score as yellow.
CAR7.4 Page99
The occupier of the structure and the occupier of the castle both receive the full score
for the structure.
It does not matter whether the structure completed actually scores any points.
The castle still receives points for a completed structure which is not occupied by
a follower.
In your opinion the rule should be the occupier of the castle get the same score as the occupier of the structure, it is more clearly,why not?
Would you please give me some rules to support your opinion?
15
« on: August 20, 2019, 04:45:21 PM »
It is not clearly what is feature score.
Our family rule is easy remember.
It is feature score if you get it due to your follower normal condition(majority).
It is not feature score if you get it due to your follower special condition(not majority) .
Not belong to feature score: Darmstadt church 3 points(due to number of follower), Leipzig(due to follower on leipzig), ringmaster(due to special follower ability),fairy 3(next to fairy).
I think castle may not get the bonus due to follower special condition.
If we treat these special bonus as feature score,more new questions will arise.
1、red on road ,yellow on castle
if red score bonus due to his own special ability,can yellow get it without special ability?
if red can not score , can yellow get bonus with his own special ability?
2、red A on road，red B on castle
if A score bonus due to his own special ability,can B get it without special ability?
if A can not score , can B get bonus with his own special ability?
3、no one on road ,yellow on castle
can yellow get bonus with his own special ability?
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