Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => The Marketplace => Topic started by: Gabrielgeek01 on February 11, 2017, 02:50:43 AM
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Hi, I'm interested in buying the semi-official fan expansions: die Wahrsagerin, die Stadttore, die Osterhase. I don't have the equipment to print them and I'm willing to pay for nicely printed tiles (they have to be of good quality, though). I have also something to trade, just in case. Let me know.
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<Message Deleted> from Wilem88
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Please read this post on the regulations set by the Publisher (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=87.0)
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Sorry, I didn't intend to break regulations. I'm OK with trading for those items, of course.
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Sorry, I was unaware of this aswell. Won't post links like that anymore ::)
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Thanks guys - To be honest that post isn't kept in the best place. I think it's important for Carcassonne Central to uphold requests from the publisher, they are kind enough for us to use their artwork for expansions, for example. Sharing links to questionable content could infringe those benefits we have now. I often try and report such items to HiG, though usually they do not follow up on them.
Thanks for understanding!
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I think here we can speak of a reimbursement of expenses more than a purchase... there is a cost also to make the fun expansion by ourselves, the tiles, the paper, the ink...
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These are all part of the commercials of the product. But bear in mind preventing the original IP owner from profits they could make from their IP is a copyright infringement. By your reasoning downloading a movie for free is acceptable because you're paying the creator of a video file the zero currency it cost them to create it and share it with you. If you did such a thing you'd be preventing the owner of the film from making money from sales.
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Even if the tiles in question have never existed as physical tiles for purchase, and are only available as a download from the manufacturer's website as "Print 'n' Play"? It's not depriving the company of additional revenue - in most cases they're gaining by someone buying the blank tiles ...
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Even if the tiles in question have never existed as physical tiles for purchase, and are only available as a download from the manufacturer's website as "Print 'n' Play"? It's not depriving the company of additional revenue - in most cases they're gaining by someone buying the blank tiles ...
Logically, this makes sense to me as well. They're not losing any money whatsoever by someone printing Fortune Teller tiles for example, and then selling those tiles. But Joe Blow is still profiting off of something they don't own - I think that's the problem legally. Which is unfortunate, because basically if you want quality "Print 'n' Play" tiles, but don't have the capability to make them, you're out of luck unless someone finds it in their heart to just make them and give them to you for free. Is my understanding correct, Decar?
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Exactly, HiG own the IP and the rights to distribute it as they feel fit. They can choose to sell their print and plays if they wish. It doesn't give someone else the right to profit from it. While I'm mentioning profit, that's 'net profit'. When you buy/trade for an item you establish a contract of exchange. There is no concept of making money legally. Selling a copied DVD for 1p for a loss or £1 for a profit makes no difference to the copyright infringement. You just have a seller making a 'net profit' but a 'gross loss'.
Also let's talk about covering shipping. This is part of the contract of sale. When I buy an item from the USA I am obliged to pay income TAX not just on the cost of the item, but also the shipping. The shipping is considered part of the cost of sale. It is not OK to sell something for free and charge £10 shipping. The contract of exchange has taken place. You've spent £10 to get the item. You have the right to haggle and barter for the price agreed in the sale.
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Thank you for helping us all understand all of this, so we can keep Carcassonne Central on the up and up, Decar. So would I be allowed to propose a trade with someone where they print the tiles for me, and I give them something in return, say another expansion? As long as no profit is being made, or money exchanged, then it would be ok?
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I'd argue that if you traded an item, you would be making net-profit because you received goods for another service. As I explained above the concept of profit isn't considered when a sale is being agreed. Buying and selling is the same as trading. It's certainly a grey area we have to be careful. Either way perhaps the publisher will revoke their current position if they are unhappy.
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I'd argue that if you traded an item, you would be making net-profit because you received goods for another service.
I think it could be a net-loss if the goods traded were worth more than the good received. As such it could fall under "barter" as opposed to "sale for profit".
Still I understand this website not wanting to risk upsetting HiG and the other publishers if people started to abuse the spirit of barter.
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The term used by the publisher is "commercial purposes". It doesn't mention having to make a profit. In fact it states it must be for free. If you sell something for a loss that just makes your a bad salesman, not a legal one.
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One final thing on this:
If you're buying/trading/pretending-to-buy-a-paper-bag-with-a Carcassonne Tile in it; even if the tiles you acquire contains totally original artwork. Hans in Gleuck still owns the artwork of the 'C' on the back of the tile. Thus the purchase would be subject to the terms and conditions I linked to above.