The Missionary

[CKorfmann]

Here is an idea I had for an expansion with no tiles.  I probably gleaned some aspects of this idea from somewhere else, but I can't put my finger on a particular place where I may have gotten them.  This expansion includes one neutral meeple colored however you want to color it (I'm leaning toward the one-arm-up meeple from H&G I think) and six round discs, one in each color for players.  This disc may eventually have some sort of symbol on it. 

When a player draws a Cloister tile (shrine, cathedral, or abbey) that player may claim the missionary and place it on that feature with his/her own disc under it to show ownership.  When this feature is surrounded by any two tiles (in the eight spaces surrounding it) than any opponent's followers that lie in a cross pattern (like the tower) in a two-tile radius become converts to that player's color.  It does not matter if there are missing tiles between the feature and any opponents' followers.  Once the feature is surrounded by any four tiles, than the pattern shifts to a two-tile radius in an X pattern (like the black tower).  At six tiles the pattern shifts back to the cross pattern in a four-tile radius and when the feature is completely surrounded by eight tiles and the feature is completed (for the cloister, shrine, and abbey, see below for cathedral completion), the pattern shifts back to an X pattern with a four-tile radius.  Any opponents in the affected area are converted and then the feature is scored and the missionary removed. 

There can only be one Missionary on the board at one time, thus the one neutral meeple and colored discs.

The Missionary can only be placed on a newly drawn tile and remains on the board until the feature is completed at which time it is removed from the board and may be claimed by any player the next time a Missionary feature is drawn. 

There is no limit to how many times any one player may use the Missionary.

An opponent’s follower can only be converted if the player with the Missionary has the exact same follower in his supply and must be replaced by the same follower.  If not, than this follower is not converted.

A barn may be converted by a Missionary.

The Missionary is considered a follower and may be eaten by the dragon. 

The Missionary will be protected by the Fairy (or angel). 

The Missionary and the Tower: If on his/her turn a player adds a piece to a tower (black tower included) and the Missionary then comes within that tower's range, than the Missionary (and the disc) may be taken prisoner by the tower.  The usual ransom must be paid, but the player only receives his/her disc back and the Missionary is out of play.  If on his/her turn, a player places a tile on his/her feature with his/her Missionary and a tower with an opponent's follower on top comes within range, than that tower is converted.  If the tower has no follower on top, it is not converted.
 
If another follower moved from the city of Carcassonne challenges the Missionary, the new follower may only share points and is not converted by, nor does it convert, any other followers.  If another player gains a majority on the feature, than the Missionary does not get the points for the Cloister, but his converts are not affected. 

A Missionary is immune to the seduction token in the Catapult expansion, but not to the knock-out token. 

If anyone has any other ideas or can suggest ways to interact with other fan-made expansions, feel free to post your ideas. 

Also, if anyone would like to do some art for the instructions for this expansion, that would be greatly appreciated!

[CKorfmann]

More rules:

The Missionary may only utilize the current conversion phase of the feature at the time it is played.  For instance, if the Missionary feature is played in a hole that is already surrounded by eight tiles, it makes converts only in the "X" pattern and not in the cross pattern from the previous phase.  This is to reflect the amount of time the Missionary spends in that feature. 

Special rules for cathedrals: When the Missionary is used on a cathedral, the effective range of that Missionary commences in the usual way.  However, the Missionary is not moved until the feature is completed, so in this case it will remain on the cathedral until the city is completed.  If the city is not completed before the end of the game, the Missionary is not removed.  The Missionary does not score any points upon completion of the city; however, it is a follower and does count toward calculating the majority in a city.  The Missionary may also be placed on a cathedral that already has followers in the city attached to it.  Likewise, another player's follower may be added to a city that only contains the Missionary and no other followers.  A cathedral with a Missionary on it scores for the city in the usual way.  A Missionary on a cathedral may be placed In the Stocks and can make no more converts until released.  When the Missionary is released from the Stocks in the usual way, than it may return to the Cathedral it was removed from and resume making converts.  If any tiles were added to the area surrounding the cathedral that they Missionary was removed from, the Missionary may not recover any conversion phases it missed while in the stocks and only utilizes the current conversion phase.  A Missionary remaining in the Stocks when the city is closed may be removed from the city in the usual way and is removed from play.  The Missionary may also be sent from a cathedral to the Gallows.  If the Missionary is hanged in the gallows it is immediately removed from the board (and may be used by another player on a subsequent turn).  However, that player's disc remains on the Gallows and may not be removed until the city containing the Gallows is complete. 

The Missionary may not be used in the Jousting Tournament. 

The Missionary may not be placed in the city of Carcassonne.

The Missionary and the cart: If the player currently using the Missionary completes an adjacent road containing his/her cart, the cart can be moved to the feature containing the Missionary.  At this time, the player's disc is removed from play and the Missionary now sits on top of the cart.  Once the Missionary feature is completed, the Missionary may now stay on the board and ride the cart to it's new destination.  However, the Missionary riding a cart can not make any new converts until the cart comes to rest again on a Missionary feature (cloister, shrine, cathedral, or abbey) by it's normal movement rules.  If at any time the cart comes out of play by it's normal rules, than the Missionary comes off the board with it and may be reclaimed by any other player.  Also, if the cart is removed by the dragon, the princess, the prince, or a tower, than the Missionary is also removed. 

The pig and the builder: the pig and the builder may both be converted by the Missionary, however, if there are no followers of the same color on the feature containing the newly converted pig or builder, than they are removed from play immediately.  If there is a follower of the same color as the newly converted pig or builder on that feature, than either of them may remain.  Likewise, if a player's follower is converted, but not the pig or the builder used with that follower, than that pig or builder must immediately be removed unless that feature contains a follower of the same color that has not been converted. 

The Missionary may not be removed by the Fairy Queen.

The Missionary is not affected by the Leper, and is not distracted by the Jester, or the Minstrel. 

The Missionary may not be eaten by the "Big Bad Wolf" as it is safe inside it's feature. 

If a knight in a besieged city decides to escape through a feature (cloister, shrine, or abbey) containing the Missionary, than that knight is immediately converted and the player controlling the Missionary may decide to keep that follower in the same city if they wish.

[Novelty]

I haven't read the whole 2 posts yet, but based on the general thrust of the expansion, I think this is:
1. way too complicated
2. a bit too powerful

The complication can be reduced by just saying that each time the missionary is placed, it converts in a fix pattern (pick one of 8 surrounding tiles, X pattern, + pattern).  Alternating just means that there is another thing to keep track of and it makes the game messy.  It's also an unnecessary complication.

The Powerful part can be reduced if chance is added into the mix.  Roll a die and if you get 6, then it gets converted.  Draw a tile and if you draw a cloister, it gets converted.  Something like that.  Afterall, not all missionaries have a 100% chance of "success".

Just my suggestions...

Edit: Added to the Development thread.

[CKorfmann]

Your suggestions are noted and appreciated.   

However, in my defense, I think I can justify some of your insights.  I think it simply may appear to be too complicated.  I often think as I write and I can be a little wordy, so there are probably just more words than there needs to be.  Plus, I've also included several rules that deal directly with fan-made expansions.  They could probably be removed and included in the FAQ's.  As for the complexity of the rules, I don't think they are any more difficult to understand or to keep track of than the Tower and the Black Tower expansion. 

I might agree with you as to the Missionary being a little too powerful and your comment about not being 100% successful.  This is the reason I made it one neutral follower instead of giving one to each player.  It would definitely be too powerful if several were on the board at once.  I wasn't sure how to tame it a little and thought of the dice option, but I've notice a trend to avoid the use of dice with expansions and as far as I can tell, it's been successful to this point. 

That being said, I'm a rookie and welcome constructive criticism from a veteran like yourself.  When you get the opportunity, please take a moment and read through the rules and see if you still think it's too complex.  Perhaps we can work on a good method of scaling back it's potency. 

I'll probably invite Joff and some others to take a look as well if they haven't seen it yet.

[CKorfmann]

Barn conversion:
After thinking it over, I've changed my mind about Barn conversion.  My thinking originally was that someone has to put the "stuff" in that barn and it simply has some invisible workers.  It would be the workers who are converted.  However, since the Barn is not used as a follower in any of the other expansions, and, since it actually doesn't lie on any one square, but on an intersection, I've decided that a barn may not be converted by the Missionary. 

[Novelty]

I think it simply may appear to be too complicated.

No, it just doesn't seem complicated, it's too complicated for me.  I don't want to remember when does the pattern change to X or whatnot because with the other things to keep track of I'll probably miss it when it happens.

I don't think they are any more difficult to understand or to keep track of than the Tower and the Black Tower expansion. 

The black tower is easy to remember - the same piece always have the same effect, irrespective of where it's played.  The missionary meeple that you are proposing (i) may change players and (ii) changes the pattern of its effect.  That's a lot more complicated than the black tower.

I think the essence of "german" games is their simplicity.  It was interesting for me to read that Settlers of Catan originally had more concepts and was scaled back to the version we know.

I might agree with you as to the Missionary being a little too powerful and your comment about not being 100% successful.  This is the reason I made it one neutral follower instead of giving one to each player.

A single neutral meeple can still be very powerful, irrespective of how many pieces there are in play.  If there was an angel piece that gives a follower strength +10, for example, that would still be powerful, because it would make the game really lopsided.  Being able to convert an opponents follower to your own, in Carcassonne, will often mean that you gain control of a feature, since the rules allow only 1 follower per feature (unless you connect it with tiles during play).  That alone make it way too valuable and powerful.

The only comparison we can make with an official expansion is the Catapult, where you can exchange one of your opponent's follower for your own, but a degree of skill is required.  The Missionary removes the element of skill and thus is already more powerful when compared with The Catapult (which as many, including myself, will say, isn't a great expansion).

Either way, it's your expansion.  I'm just making suggestions that you may choose to ignore.

[CKorfmann]

OK, I understand your points and I think I agree with you for the most part.  How about if I made the following changes; any followers on any of the eight surrounding tiles at the time of feature's completion may be converted.  This gives those players with followers next to the feature time to get out of there before the feature is complete.  It also gives the player using the Missionary a “sneak attack” when placing the feature (cloister, etc.) in a hole (assuming there are other followers there), and it eliminates any shifting patterns to try and recall during the time the Missionary is in play. 

Don't forget that the Missionary is still limited by one of the rules I've stated earlier.  That is that the player using the Missionary must have the exact same follower in his supply in order to convert any opponents’ followers.  This would certainly have an affect on the player controlling the Missionary during the latter portion of the game as he/she will very likely have played several of his/her other followers. 

We could also say that the Missionary may be limited in the amount of converts it can make at any one time, perhaps 1 or 2 followers of his choice (assuming there are more available).  The likelihood that there will be more than that on the surrounding tiles is pretty low anyway. 

Conversion of followers surrounding a cathedral might have to be tweaked a little, but that can come later.  Do you think this is an improvement?

[Novelty]

The improvements sound better, a limit of 1 would tone down the power level a lot, but it's still powerful.  Also, it'd be nice if the original player gets a say in whether he/she gets to resist the conversion attempt.  Flip the abbey tile in hand, for instance - back = no conversion, front = converted, which would make the abbey tile a lot more valuable than what it is now.  If that abbey tile has been played then they don't get to resist the conversion.  I would play with those rules!

[bufferm44]

I don't understand some things (I read the first part of the first post, mut many things are not clear...)

...This expansion includes one neutral meeple colored however you want to color it...

...and six round discs, one in each color for players....

How is the neutral meeple called?

...that player may claim the missionary and place it on that feature with his/her own disc under it to show ownership....

Place what?

[CKorfmann]

I would play with those rules!

That's what I want to hear!     I didn't like the idea of flipping the Abbey at first, but it's growing on me.  Is that the only rule you had issue with?

@bufferm44:
Perhaps I can clear it up for you a little.  I don't completely understand your question, but I'll do my best.  The Missionary is one neutral meeple that sits off to the side like the dragon or the fairy until it comes into play.  Instead of getting an extra meeple for each player's supply, each player will get a small disc that is the same color as their meeples (blue, yellow, red, green, etc).  In order for a player to claim the Missionary, they must play their disc on the tile and then place the Missionary meeple on top of it.  This claims the Missionary for that player and it becomes one of his/her followers until it's feature is completed and it is then removed from the board along with the player's disc.  The Missionary is then free to be claimed by any player the next time a cloister (shrine, abbey, or cathedral) is drawn.  Is this any clearer?

[Joff]

I would echo Novelty's comments that the expansion is too complicated in the first draft. There is a lot to remember. However, the toned down version is much better and I do like the idea of flipping the Abbey tile. Of course, that would make the expansion only playable with Abbey and Mayor... but that is not a problem, since I think that Abbey and Mayor is the best expansion available anyway!!!

I am not sure about the idea of allowing the Missionary to piggy-back the Wagon!

[Novelty]

How's the rules document going along, C?

[CKorfmann]

I am not sure about the idea of allowing the Missionary to piggy-back the Wagon!

Really?  I like that one!  I think it's a rare enough possibility to make it fun.  Plus, it's not affecting anyone while it's going for a ride.  The idea is that the Missionary is traveling from one place to another when he finishes his work. 

How's the rules document going along, C?

I haven't had a chance to work on it much more yet.  I want to get a little more input before I start putting it into the template. 

My work schedule is complicated.  My wife and I work for a children's home.  We are on for two weeks and off for two weeks.  It's 24/7 while we're on shift, but it's the same when we're off, so it's kinda nice.  We're on now for another week and I have very limited access to the interent.  I'm really surprised I can actually access this site.  If I get a chance today, I'll try and amend the rules and repost them to see how they look. 

[CKorfmann]

Here is the first major edit for the Missionary.  I hope the color-coding makes it appear less complicated.

This expansion includes one neutral meeple colored however you want to color it (I'm leaning toward the one-arm-up meeple from H&G).  The Missionary is kept of the side of the board until it is allowed to come into play.  Also, each player receives one flat round disc in that player’s color.  This disc may eventually have some sort of symbol on it. 

When a player draws a Cloister tile (shrine, cathedral, or abbey) that player may claim the Missionary and place it on that feature with his/her own disc under it to show ownership.  The Missionary now becomes a follower for the player who puts it into play.  The Missionary can only be placed on a newly drawn tile and remains on the board until the feature is completed at which time it is removed from the board and may be claimed by any player the next time a Missionary feature is drawn. 

While in play, the Missionary acts just like a Monk until the feature it stands on is completed.  While standing on a cloister, shrine, or abbey (see rules for the cathedral below) the Missionary scores the usual number of points when the feature is completed.  In addition, the Missionary may also convert the followers of opponents that sit on the eight tiles surrounding the feature.  Converted followers are removed from the board and replaced by a follower of the same color as the Missionary.  An opponent’s follower can only be converted if the player with the Missionary has the exact same follower in his supply and must be replaced by the same follower.  If not, than this follower is not converted.  Followers are converted before the feature is scored.  Then, after scoring the Missionary is returned to the side of the board and player’s disc is returned to their supply.

The number of followers converted is dependent upon the feature the Missionary is sitting on.  While on the Cloister, the Missionary may only convert one opponent’s follower.  If there are multiple opponents’ followers on the eight tiles surrounding the feature, the player controlling the Missionary may choose any one of the opponents’ followers he wishes.  If the Missionary is sitting on a Shrine, the player may choose any two opponents’ followers adjacent to the Shrine.  If the Missionary is on the Abbey, the player may choose any three opponents’ followers adjacent to the Abbey (there is only one opportunity for a Missionary to sit on an abbey for any particular player since each player can own only one).  (This is based on the frequency that these features appear.)

There is no limit to how many times any one player may use the Missionary.  However, there can only be one Missionary on the board at one time, thus the one neutral meeple and colored discs.

Special rules for cathedrals: When the Missionary is used on a Cathedral, the effective range of that Missionary remains the eight tiles surrounding the cathedral.  The Missionary does not score any points upon completion of the city and does not make any conversions, nor is it removed until the city is complete.  However, it is considered a follower and does count toward calculating the majority in a city.  If the city is not completed before the end of the game, the Missionary is not removed and must remain there until the end of the game (unless it is removed by the dragon or another expansion feature).  The Missionary on the cathedral is not prohibited by, nor does it prohibit other players entering the city.  This means that the Missionary may be placed on a cathedral that already has followers in the city attached to it.  Likewise, another player's follower may be added to a city that only contains the Missionary and no other followers.  A cathedral with a Missionary on it scores for the city in the usual way.

The Missionary and other expansion features:

The Missionary is considered a follower and may be eaten by the dragon.  The Missionary is protected by the Fairy (or angel). 

The Missionary and the Tower: If on his/her turn a player adds a piece to a tower (black tower included) and the Missionary then comes within that tower's range, than the Missionary (and the disc) may be taken prisoner by the tower.  The usual ransom must be paid, but the player only receives his/her disc back and the Missionary is out of play.  If a player completes a feature with his/her Missionary and a tower with an opponent's follower on top stands within range upon completion (assuming the Missionary is not captured), than that tower is converted.  If the tower has no follower on top, it is not converted.
 
The Missionary may not be placed in the city of Carcassonne.  If another follower moved from the city of Carcassonne challenges the Missionary, the new follower may only share points and is not converted, nor does it convert any other followers.  If another player gains a majority on the feature, than the Missionary does not get the points for the feature, but his converts are not affected. 

A Missionary is immune to the seduction token in the Catapult expansion, but not to the knockout token.

The pig and the builder: the pig and the builder may both be converted by the Missionary, however, if there are no followers of the same color on the feature containing the newly converted pig or builder, than they are removed from play immediately.  If there is a follower of the same color as the newly converted pig or builder on that feature, than either of them may remain.  Likewise, if a player's follower is converted, but not the pig or the builder used with that follower, than that pig or builder must immediately be removed unless that feature contains a follower of the same color that has not been converted. 

A barn may not be converted by a Missionary.

The Missionary and the cart: If the player currently using the Missionary completes an adjacent road containing his/her cart, the cart can be moved to the feature containing the Missionary.  At this time, the player's disc is removed from play and the Missionary now sits on top of the cart.  Once the Missionary feature is completed, the Missionary may now stay on the board and ride the cart to its new destination.  However, the Missionary riding a cart can not make any new converts until the cart comes to rest again on a Missionary feature (cloister, shrine, cathedral, or abbey) by it's normal movement rules (this is the only time a Missionary may claim a feature on a previously placed tile).  If at any time the cart comes out of play by it's normal rules, than the Missionary comes off the board with it and may be reclaimed by any other player.  Also, if the cart is removed by the dragon, the princess, or a tower, than the Missionary is also removed. 

If a knight in a besieged city decides to escape through a feature (cloister, shrine, or abbey) containing the Missionary, than that knight is immediately converted and the player controlling the Missionary may decide to return that follower to the same city if they wish.

Interaction with Fan-made expansions:

The Missionary may be removed by the Prince, but may not be removed by the Fairy Queen.

The Missionary is not affected by the Leper, and is not influenced by the Jester, or the Minstrel. 

The Missionary may not be eaten by the "Big Bad Wolf" as it is safe inside its feature. 

A Missionary on a cathedral may be placed In the Stocks and can make no more converts until released.  When the Missionary is released from the Stocks in the usual way, than it may return to the Cathedral it was removed from and resume making converts.  A Missionary remaining in the Stocks when the city is closed may be removed from the city in the usual way and is removed from play while making no converts. 

The Missionary may also be sent from a cathedral to the Gallows.  If the Missionary is hanged in the gallows it is immediately removed from the board (and may be used by another player on a subsequent turn).  However, that player's disc remains on the Gallows and may not be removed until the city containing the Gallows is complete. 

The Missionary on a cathedral may not be used in the Jousting Tournament.

If a Missionary is placed on a besieged cloister, the number on converts allowed is double (2 instead of 1). 

[JaffaMan11]

These rules look pretty good to me - adds a new element to the game through conversions, but is not too powerful. If anything at first glance, it may have gone a little the other way - is it now too weak? To use you need to get your cloister/shrine/abbey to sit right beside an opponents meeple, and then hope you complete your feature before they are gone. Its certainly one way of dealing with farmers. Would have to try it out to see, but perhaps making conversions out 2 rows instead of 1 would add some power without it going too far?