The Pope of Avignon

[wicke]

A new expansion to comment on:

THE POPE OF AVIGNON

A Carcassonne variant originated by Patrik Wikström

In the history of the Roman Catholic Church, the Avignon Papacy was the period from 1309 to 1377 during which seven popes, all French, resided in Avignon, France. The city of Avignon flourished because of this in both cultural aspects and growth of population. The people around Carcassonne have mixed opinions about this. Some are even willing to take the city under siege and force the Pope over to their city.

EXTRA PIECES
•   1  Pope (an extra count painted in white can be used)
•   1 Avignon City tile (not made yet)

ADDITIONAL RULES

Preparation
The Avignon City tile is mixed in with the other land tiles.

Placing the Avigon City tile and deploying the Pope
The Avignon City tile is placed in the same way as a normal tile.
When the Avignon City tile is drawn and laid, the player who laid the tile deploys the Pope onto the city segment of the Avignon City tile.
The player can place the tile and connect it to another city that already holds a follower.

Scoring
1 point is added to every tile of the completed city if it holds the Pope.

Taking the Pope over to another city
Adding a Cathar tile or a siege tile to the city that holds the Pope will allow an opportunity to redeploy the Pope to any incomplete city on the playing area.
Then later in the game another city may get the bonus points for the Pope.

Acknowledgements
Thanks to Jonathan Warren for comments and suggestions

[Novelty]

This looks good.  The phrasing of the text would probably needs to be "tightened up" so that it cannot be misunderstood, but that's something to work on.

The introduction needs commas after 1377, in the first sentence and flourised because of this, in the second sentence.  "growth of population" would read better as "population growth".  Do the people around Carcassonne still have mixed opinions about this?  or is it had?  And for the last sentence, I think you mean "Some are even willing to lay siege to the city to force the Pope to another city."

Edit: Added the white count for your rules document.  The tile you requested is in the queue, which hasn't progressed today because I've been busy doing site staff things...

Edit 2: Added this and The House of Valois to the development list.

[Joff]

Here is the latest draft rules: The Pope of Avignon

[Novelty]

The rules are unclear, can you still play a meeple (or an equivilant MTW action) after playing the pope?

When is the pope played, before or after the scoring phase of the turn?  Is it possible to play the tile, deploy the pope, score the city and then move the pope?

Personification is great technic when writing novels, but it's hopeless for things like rules... "1 point is added to every tile of the completed city if it holds the Pope." would probably read better as "A completed city that contains the Pope on one of its tiles gives an additional one point to every tile in the city."

The same rephrasing is probably required for the Cathar/siege tile statement as a city cannot literally "hold" the pope.

"Then later in the game another city may get the bonus points for the Pope."  How much later?  When exactly?  Why would the pope get points... what does the pope do with the points?  Is there a benefit to a particular player?  Why doesn't players get points?  I don't really understand this statement...

Additional questions:
Can the pope be removed by the dragon or the tower?  Or the Stocks or Gallows?
Can the pope be moved to the City of Carcassonne?
Does the pope count for majority when playing with Jousting Tournament?
What happens when the fairy is next to the pope?
Is the pope's bonus to a city's score additive to the cathedral's bonus?
What happens when a player does not have any Cathar or Siege tiles?  Does this expansion require that those tiles be played with?
Will Joff make a white Count?

[Joff]

Will Joff make a white Count?

Absolutely not! (at the moment anyway )

For the Pope, you can obtain a shepherd from here: http://bedi-spielematerial.eu/product_info.php?info=p112_Shepherd.html&XTCsid=1b038c159ad8397110f0884a0ee36ad7

Almost the same as the Count.

[Novelty]

For the Pope, you can obtain a shepherd from here: http://bedi-spielematerial.eu/product_info.php?info=p112_Shepherd.html&XTCsid=1b038c159ad8397110f0884a0ee36ad7

You should add that to your list of places to obtain meeples.  Thanks for the link though

[Joff]

For the Pope, you can obtain a shepherd from here: http://bedi-spielematerial.eu/product_info.php?info=p112_Shepherd.html&XTCsid=1b038c159ad8397110f0884a0ee36ad7

You should add that to your list of places to obtain meeples.  Thanks for the link though

It is listed there

[Novelty]

Ooooh, thanks Joff.  Anyways, I sent this to Joff, but I guess there's no reason why it can't be made available here for people to playtest this expansion.  Here are the Avignon tiles.

[Joff]

Here are the latest rules from wicke: The Pope

[Novelty]

Have the previous issues I raised been answered?

The rules are unclear, can you still play a meeple (or an equivilant MTW action) after playing the pope?

When is the pope played, before or after the scoring phase of the turn?  Is it possible to play the tile, deploy the pope, score the city and then move the pope?

Personification is great technic when writing novels, but it's hopeless for things like rules... "1 point is added to every tile of the completed city if it holds the Pope." would probably read better as "A completed city that contains the Pope on one of its tiles gives an additional one point to every tile in the city."

The same rephrasing is probably required for the Cathar/siege tile statement as a city cannot literally "hold" the pope.

"Then later in the game another city may get the bonus points for the Pope."  How much later?  When exactly?  Why would the pope get points... what does the pope do with the points?  Is there a benefit to a particular player?  Why doesn't players get points?  I don't really understand this statement...

Additional questions:
Can the pope be removed by the dragon or the tower?  Or the Stocks or Gallows?
Can the pope be moved to the City of Carcassonne?
Does the pope count for majority when playing with Jousting Tournament?
What happens when the fairy is next to the pope?
Is the pope's bonus to a city's score additive to the cathedral's bonus?
What happens when a player does not have any Cathar or Siege tiles?  Does this expansion require that those tiles be played with?

[wicke]

I will check your comments when I get the time, I have had visitors for a week now, so I haven't had ANY time for that.
But, I don't think I will refer to every fan-made expansion there is, like Stocks, Gallows or Jousting Tournament as you mentioned, since I have never played with those or even read the rules for them.

[Novelty]

Well, wicke, since Joff is the author of those, and since he is helping you write the rules, you might want to ask him for help.

[Joff]

Latest rules with Novelty's comments: The Pope 0.4

[Novelty]

That's starting to look better.  Good work, Joff and wicke.

More questions.

1. "1 Avignon City tile (there is also an alternate Avignon City tile with a river segment that can be used instead of using this tile.  Only one of the Avignon city tiles is to be used in a game.)" <-- the bold additions will make it clearer.  Actually, I would move the whole lot to preparation and just leave the "1 Avignon City tile" above.
2. Can I choose not to play the pope and play a follower (or any other MTW action) instead, when I draw the Avignon tile?
3. If I play the pope, can I do any other MTW actions (such as move the fairy, play a tower piece etc. which are not followers)?
4. "The player can place the tile and connect it to another city that already holds has a follower in that city."  <-- bold = additions, strikethroughs = deletions
Previous questions unanswered with official expansions:
5. Can the pope be moved to the City of Carcassonne? (Count of Carcassonne)
6. What happens when the fairy is next to the pope? (Princess and Dragons)
7. Is the pope's bonus to a city's score additive to the cathedral's bonus? (Inns and Cathedrals)
8. What happens when a player does not have any Cathar or Siege tiles?  Does this expansion require that those tiles be played with? (Graf, Koenig & Kulsultten, Shrines & Heretics, Cathars, Cult, Siege & Creativity)
Previous unanswered questions with fan-made expansions (since there is a footnote for Invasion of Catharism):
9. Does the pope count for majority when playing with Jousting Tournament? (Jousting Tournament, part of Medieval Expansion)
10. Can the pope be removed the Stocks or Gallows? (Stocks, Gallows, both part of Medieval Expansion)

Joff:
It could be my browser, but is my name in a different font (or font size) in Acknowledgements?
Also, the alignment of the CC logo isn't at the bottom of the page as I'm used to seeing it.  Is that intentional?

[Joff]

This is the latest version from wicke.

This time i've had some time to look through it (I was up early ) and give it a rewrite. I have changed some of the wording and one or two footnotes slightly. I'm not sure if all Novelty's comments have been included, but I have added some text of my own (highlighted in red) which are my suggestions. You are free to use these as you wish wicke.

Pope 0.5

Here are my reasons for the red highlights:

Required Expansions:
It seems to me that this expansion does not require any extra expansions, but would benefit greatly from some.

Placing the Avignon City tile and deploying the Pope:
The player who places the Pope could be at a disadvantage from other players. The bonus point would alleviate that problem slightly.
'The Pope remaining in play' sentence was an excuse to attach the footnotes however, the question remains of what happens when the Pope has scored his city and is removed from the playing area. Here is an attempt to address the problem.