The King
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Joff
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« on: December 12, 2008, 07:01:22 AM »

I have started a new thread for this AOC Prophet mechanic. At present it has been given the working title of 'The King', however, as this will probably conflict with what we know as 'King and Robber Baron' so this will probably change.

Leading on from the discussion on The Leper thread, this is how this variant/expansion stands at present:

Yes, it piggybacks directly from the Ark mechanic, which is where I took it from. I have also been considering a similar mechanic as the Prophet in Ark. Something like a King who visits a city only once but can score double and then removed from the game.

And the prophet... how about each player has a crown, and when your big follower into a city, you can choose to place it lying down with a crown on it. It counts as having only 1 strength (instead of 2), but means that that player will score double from that city if it completes. The crown leaves the game whenever it is present in a city when it is scored.
Possible variants:
- The crown leaves the game whenever the follower leaves the board. Meaner variant, because of the towers and the dragon.
- The crown can be placed on a small follower as well as a large follower. When placed on a small follower, he still has 1 strength. Makes the crown easier to use.
- The crown is not placed with a follower, but can instead be used (as a MTW action) to convert a big follower down to strength 1 but giving double points.
- There is no crown, and this instead becomes an ability of the big follower when being placed in a city only.
- There is no crown, and instead each player has an additional figure which acts like the prophet. Not sure this is a good route to go down.
- There is only a neutral crown (instead of one per player, although a second may be needed), and the person who controls the king tile may relinquish it to place their big follower with the crown. The target size to take the king again stays in effect.
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Joff
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 02:18:43 AM »

And the prophet... how about each player has a crown, and when your big follower into a city, you can choose to place it lying down with a crown on it. It counts as having only 1 strength (instead of 2), but means that that player will score double from that city if it completes. The crown leaves the game whenever it is present in a city when it is scored.

This is slightly different that the Prophet type piece, as it must be played with the large follower, but I feel is better. I feel this idea should be the basic idea for the crown.

- The crown leaves the game whenever the follower leaves the board. Meaner variant, because of the towers and the dragon.

Not sure if I like the idea that the crown leaves the game completely upon the follower becoming the Dragon's lunch or Tower capture.

- The crown can be placed on a small follower as well as a large follower. When placed on a small follower, he still has 1 strength. Makes the crown easier to use.

That is a simpler version. What happens if your big follower is tied up in another feature; it might be good to allow for use with the regular follower.

- The crown is not placed with a follower, but can instead be used (as a MTW action) to convert a big follower down to strength 1 but giving double points.

What does this mean? Do you move the crown as a seperate piece and onto the tile occupied by the large follower? The idea of converting down the large follower (but with the risk of additional reward) is a good one, it could be coupled with the basic idea anyway.

- There is no crown, and this instead becomes an ability of the big follower when being placed in a city only.

I think this needs a one-time use, and so I prefer the basic idea.

- There is no crown, and instead each player has an additional figure which acts like the prophet. Not sure this is a good route to go down.

I absolutely agree. Another piece is not ideal, but a coupling piece, like the original crown idea is much better.

- There is only a neutral crown (instead of one per player, although a second may be needed), and the person who controls the king tile may relinquish it to place their big follower with the crown. The target size to take the king again stays in effect.

This might be interesting combined with the King and Robber Baron. The person controlling the King, controls the crown and may deploy it for an extra bonus. This could well be a seperate expansion in itself, especially if something could be done similar for the player who controls the Robber Baron.
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Lardarse
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 06:16:28 AM »

- The crown can be placed on a small follower as well as a large follower. When placed on a small follower, he still has 1 strength. Makes the crown easier to use.
That is a simpler version. What happens if your big follower is tied up in another feature; it might be good to allow for use with the regular follower.
But then what is the "penalty" for using your small follower this way? You could make it be a flat -1 strength, reducing its strength to 0 (and adding all of the rules bulk for 0-strength mayor). An alternative is to make it be half strength, and then you could allow it to be used on the mayor and wagon as well.

Related: How useful is the wagon's ability? I've not played A&M yet (my copy only arrived on Tuesday), so I don't know yet. But what if instead of reducing the strength of the wagon, you remove its wheels instead (so it has to return to the supply)? Would be fitting for an upside-down wagon (as I think it's more stable that way than on its side).

Quote
Quote
- The crown is not placed with a follower, but can instead be used (as a MTW action) to convert a big follower down to strength 1 but giving double points.
What does this mean? Do you move the crown as a seperate piece and onto the tile occupied by the large follower? The idea of converting down the large follower (but with the risk of additional reward) is a good one, it could be coupled with the basic idea anyway.
Move the crown (as a separate piece) on top of the lying down follower. Could easily be combined with the "any follower" idea.

Quote
Quote
- There is only a neutral crown (instead of one per player, although a second may be needed), and the person who controls the king tile may relinquish it to place their big follower with the crown. The target size to take the king again stays in effect.
This might be interesting combined with the King and Robber Baron. The person controlling the King, controls the crown and may deploy it for an extra bonus. This could well be a seperate expansion in itself, especially if something could be done similar for the player who controls the Robber Baron.
Now there's an idea. However, holding the King during the game is not significant; only at the end of the game does it have meaning. So what if it gave you another advantage during the game... say giving 1 point for every completed city. Who came up with that idea on these forums first?

Additional gamble: What if the crown is an advantage for the whole city, and everyone who scores from it scores double?
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Joff
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 06:59:43 AM »

- The crown can be placed on a small follower as well as a large follower. When placed on a small follower, he still has 1 strength. Makes the crown easier to use.
That is a simpler version. What happens if your big follower is tied up in another feature; it might be good to allow for use with the regular follower.
But then what is the "penalty" for using your small follower this way? You could make it be a flat -1 strength, reducing its strength to 0 (and adding all of the rules bulk for 0-strength mayor). An alternative is to make it be half strength, and then you could allow it to be used on the mayor and wagon as well.

First off, if we say that it is only the big follower that can use the crown (but he has a strength of 1 instead of 2) it forces this expansion to require Inns & Cathedrals. This might not be good, but the use of the crown exclusively with the large follower is, IMO, the best version and the simplest to implement.

I suppose using it with the small follower could be a -1 strength (making it 0 strength), but this could well be a deterrent to using the crown. Why would you place the crown if you could straight away lose control of the city?

I'm unsure about the half strength, this could get confusing for some.

Regarding the Mayor, how about: the Mayor already holds a position of authority within the city, but he is not royalty and cannot use the crown Wink

Quote
Related: How useful is the wagon's ability? I've not played A&M yet (my copy only arrived on Tuesday), so I don't know yet. But what if instead of reducing the strength of the wagon, you remove its wheels instead (so it has to return to the supply)? Would be fitting for an upside-down wagon (as I think it's more stable that way than on its side).

The Wagon can be very useful. Usually, I move the wagon once I complete a feature, if I can. Forcing a return to supply is an option if using the crown with it.

However, similar to the Mayor, why would a Wagon use a crown Wink In other words, only a big follower may use the crown (or regular follower if we take this route).

Quote
Quote
Quote
- The crown is not placed with a follower, but can instead be used (as a MTW action) to convert a big follower down to strength 1 but giving double points.
What does this mean? Do you move the crown as a seperate piece and onto the tile occupied by the large follower? The idea of converting down the large follower (but with the risk of additional reward) is a good one, it could be coupled with the basic idea anyway.
Move the crown (as a separate piece) on top of the lying down follower. Could easily be combined with the "any follower" idea.

Makes it simple to create a cardboard chit for the crown.

Quote
Quote
Quote
- There is only a neutral crown (instead of one per player, although a second may be needed), and the person who controls the king tile may relinquish it to place their big follower with the crown. The target size to take the king again stays in effect.
This might be interesting combined with the King and Robber Baron. The person controlling the King, controls the crown and may deploy it for an extra bonus. This could well be a seperate expansion in itself, especially if something could be done similar for the player who controls the Robber Baron.
Now there's an idea. However, holding the King during the game is not significant; only at the end of the game does it have meaning. So what if it gave you another advantage during the game... say giving 1 point for every completed city. Who came up with that idea on these forums first?

The 1 point for every city is standard scoring at end game for the King holder (the Robber is 1 point for every completed road). This idea should be a seperate work from this expansion. I like it because it gives a real in-game bonus to get that King/Robber tile.

Quote
Additional gamble: What if the crown is an advantage for the whole city, and everyone who scores from it scores double?

That would probably work also, it reminds me of another idea that I have not followed up:

One of the other ideas I have been looking at is to start all players on a tile so that they would all score from the feature if it were completed, and then incorporate some mechanic that allows other players to re-deploy their fellow followers into other features on the board. Something like; Green completes the first feature (be it city or road), he may now re-deploy one of the other players followers to a seperate feature (leaving less followers on the starting feature). Assume he chooses Red. If Yellow is left on the feature (along with green), when Yellow or Green score the next feature they can remove their opponent, thus scoring for the feature. Of course, I have not done anything with it yet, and that is a very rough draft form!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 07:03:13 AM by Joff » Logged
Novelty
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2008, 11:04:46 AM »

I think this should be merged back with "The Leper" to make "The King and the Leper".  Note, King might be confused with the official expansion of the same name (the one with the "& Scout" expansion).  I would suggest "Duke" instead of King.

Anyways, added to the "In Development" thread/list.
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