Forests

[Novelty]

The background to this thread is from the Request for new tiles thread.  Basically the idea is from Scott, the tiles are made by me.

I'm trying to PDF the files so that they will print out in the actual size irrespective of whatever machine/program/printer is used to print them... I think this works, but it is based on A4 paper size.

First page, forest tiles, featuring dead-ends
Second page, forest tiles, featuring through roads
Third page, forest tiles, featuring tower bases and a roundabout!
Fourth page, forest tiles, featuring cloisters and shrines
Fifth page, forest tiles, featuring cities
Sixth page, forest tiles, featuring forest connectors and the pig farm
Seventh page, forest tiles, featuring road and city pieces
Eighth page, forest tiles, featuring more road and city pieces
Nineth page, forest tiles, featuring dual-sided city pieces

Further tiles coming up soon!

Thumbnails below

[Joff]

Have we a variant using these as yet? If not, i'll get thinking!

[Joff]

Woodman's Cottage

When a Woodman's Cottage is drawn from the supply (that is a forest tile, that has a road on it, ending in a cottage) a player may place a follower on the cottage. At game end, a player that has a Woodman claims 5 points for every tile that makes up the forest. The forest does not have to be complete but it must follow the usual rules of connection (i.e. adjacent edges must match). Should another player place a Woodman the forest is scored by majority occupier (same as cities, except for the 5 point per tile). However, unlike cities a player may place a Woodman directly in a forest where there is already an occupier.

Just some preliminary thoughts, perhaps the 5 point per tile is a bit high? Suggestions?

[Gantry]

Woodman's Cottage

When a Woodman's Cottage is drawn from the supply (that is a forest tile, that has a road on it, ending in a cottage) a player may place a follower on the cottage. At game end, a player that has a Woodman claims 5 points for every tile that makes up the forest. The forest does not have to be complete but it must follow the usual rules of connection (i.e. adjacent edges must match). Should another player place a Woodman the forest is scored by majority occupier (same as cities, except for the 5 point per tile). However, unlike cities a player may place a Woodman directly in a forest where there is already an occupier.

Just some preliminary thoughts, perhaps the 5 point per tile is a bit high? Suggestions?

If I'm reading this correctly, when you place a woodman's cottage you can place a follower on the cottage. Then you say:

However, unlike cities a player may place a Woodman directly in a forest where there is already an occupier.

When does this occur? Only when drawing a woodman's cottage, or at anytime after drawing any tile?

Five points per tile is a bit steep, however, think about this: if the forest (at least 1 forest tile in the forest) is adjacent to a river, it is a higher value (5 pts/tile or perhaps 3 pts/tile). If the forest is not adjacent to a river, it is worth only 2 points per tile. What this rule does is, like farmers, encourage you to commit a meeple (woodman) early on in the game right after placing a river.  That way, the farther along the game goes on, the less chance there is of making a killer high-point move as forests naturally move away from the river. Not sure if I'm being clear about this concept. There's nothing worse than playing really well for 40 minutes, only to have your opponent pull a great tile and win the game.

[Scott]

When I originally thought of forests, I was thinking they would be scored more like cities, except 1 point per tile. I was also thinking of a trade good with a picture of a log. A meeple placed on the forest is a lumberjack. We could possibly have a logging camp tile to double the points of the forest. I was also originally thinking of a cloister tile in the middle of a forest clearing, though that was before shrines came out; we could instead or additionally have a shrine in the middle of a forest (the worshippers of Woden met in the forest).

Another idea brewing in my head is to combine forests with gold mines, since this is going to be a fairly big expansion anyway.

[Novelty]

I like Scott's idea better.  Keep in mind that at the end of the day we will probably run over 100 forest tiles.

[Novelty]

Updated the top post with the second page... here are the links for your convienence:

Second page, forest tiles

Gantry, if you could make this available for download, it'd be much appreciated.

Thumbnail



Edit: As you can tell, I'm working with roads, forests and farms at the moment.  Cities and rivers and all the other icons will be added in the future.  Next up, roundabouts, 2 roads at right angles and junctions.

[Scott]

Those look awesome. Keep it up!

[Novelty]

Updated the top post with the third page... here are the links for your convienence:

Third page, forest tiles

Gantry, if you could make this available for download, it'd be much appreciated.

Thumbnail



Next up is shrines and cloisters (6 cloisters, 8 shrines, 1 with both! - i.e. no shrine or cloister can be placed next to the tile with both!).

The current plan is:
volcanoes & dragon
magic portal & princess
river & inns & pig farm
cities

Edit: Gold mines will fit in there somewhere

[Scott]

The tower foundation in the middle of the forest is very spooky. I like how the trees have grown right up to the side of it as if it has been there for a very long time.

[Novelty]

The tower foundation in the middle of the forest is very spooky. I like how the trees have grown right up to the side of it as if it has been there for a very long time.

Thanks.  I like it that way too.  It was a pain to make, that much I can tell you.

I just realised that with the 3 pages of tiles, it's the largest Carc expansion ever (only the original has more tiles!), and I'm not even halfway done with the expansion yet!  Whee!

I'm not a big fan of P&D (and I haven't even played it yet, eventhough I've the expansion), so do anyone have any suggestions how many of the volcanoes/dragon/magic portal & princess icons I should make?  I'm limiting the icon stuff to a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 8 so that we don't get overkill with the number of tiles.  Suggestions welcome!

[Scott]

I'm not getting any tremendous inspirations for forest-related P&D tiles, so I would say tend towards fewer of them:

• volcano just outside a forest half-round
• magic portal in a forest clearing
• dragon on some random forest tile with two or more pre-existing features
• princess on a forest/city tile

Here's a very rough draft of the rules for forests and gold mines:

Forests and Gold Mines

Extra Pieces
* ? new land tiles (showing forest segments as well as familiar features such as cities, cloisters, roads and farms)

Additional Rules

1. Place a tile

The new land tiles are placed in the usual way.

2. Deploy a follower

When the player has placed a tile with a forest segment, he or she may deploy a follower to the forest segment as a lumberjack. There must be no other followers (not even one belonging to the same player) on the forest segments connected to the tile just placed. It does not matter how far away the follower is.

When the player has placed a tile with a gold mine, he or she may deploy a follower to the gold mine as a miner. The player scores 1 point at the beginning of every player's turn until the gold mine is completed.

3. Score completed forests and gold mines

A completed forest

A forest is completed when it is completely surrounded by farm (i.e. there are no open sides where the forest can be expanded) and there are no gaps within the forest. There is no limit to how many segments a forest may contain. A player who has a lumberjack in a completed forest scores 1 point for every forest segment. If there are several followers in a completed forest, the points are then scored by the player with the most lumberjacks. In the case of a draw, all players involved score the full number of points.

If a forest is completed which contains one or more logging camps, then the lumberjack scores 2 points for every forest segment.

When a forest containing one or more wood trade symbols is completed, the forest is scored as usual. The player who completed the forest receives one trade counter for each wood trade symbol in the forest. It is irrelevant whether this player had a lumberjack in the forest, or indeed whether there were any lumberjacks in the forest at all.

A completed gold mine

A gold mine is completed when it is surrounded by eight land tiles. The mine no longer produces gold and the follower is returned to its owner.

Final Scoring

Scoring incomplete forests

For every incomplete forest, the owner scores 1 point for every segment. If the incomplete forest contains one or more logging camps, it scores no points.

Scoring incomplete gold mines

For every incomplete gold mine, the owner scores 1 point for every missing segment. For example, if a gold mine is only surrounded by 6 tiles, it scores 2 points.

Trade counters

The player who has the most wood counters scores 10 points. As usual, in the case of a draw all players involved score the full 10 points.

[Novelty]

A forest is completed when it is completely surrounded by farm

  It may also be surrounded by roads, cities and rivers, well that's the plan anyways...

If a forest is completed which contains one or more logging camps, then the lumberjack scores 2 points for every forest segment.

When a forest containing one or more wood trade symbols is completed, the forest is scored as usual.

 I'm leaving these mechanics for the expansion to the Forest expansion

And I think we should make Gold Mines "expansion" separate from forest.  Of course some of the gold mine tiles will have forest and vice versa.

The reason for all the above is because there are already 45 tiles to Forest alone, P&D will add 30, I&C about 10, cities another 30.  Grand total will be over 100 new forest tiles just for the first pass forest expansion.  The numbers will probably increase rather than decrease.

I forsee: gold mines adding about 4 forest tiles, rivers adding 15, 4 more for fairs and 7 for outposts.  All these will be with their respective expansions instead of with forests proper.

Then it's 12 for wood trade and 18 for logging camps for the "expansion to the expansion" aka Lumberjack expansion.  30 tiles will tie it with P&D, the largest official expansion in terms of tiles.

Edit: I'm already thinking of a second (small) expansion, similar to King, where there's a Robin Hood type of character, forests going under tunnes and with "gaps" (perhaps streams ending in a lake in the middle, or something) so that the forests are divided into 2 or more areas on a single tile.

[Joff]

I know we have a bit of fluidity with the fine details at present, but here is a draft:

http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/forests_goldmines.pdf

Edit: Link changed to reflect individual expansion rules

[Novelty]

Nice.  It's going to turn out to be a long document though since there's at least 4 expansions all lumped in there.