Author Topic: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III  (Read 9607 times)

Offline Whaleyland

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A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« on: August 21, 2014, 11:44:48 AM »
I'm just going to put it out there, the new interpretation of The River I included in Big Box 5 should really be The River III. The reasons for this are simple: fans will want both expansions and both companies will continue to produce both versions. Indeed, The River I is now a core component of Carcassonne by Z-Man Games. They will not be releasing the new version except in Big Box 5 or as a stand-alone mini-expansion, which is unlikely.

The differences between The River and the new version are obvious, as well. The addition of four tiles depicting Hills & Sheep features is a vast change compared to the simple graphical differences between Wind Rose I and Wind Rose II. Similarly, though the tiles are the same the addition of new features puts it on par with Corn Circles I and Corn Circles II, which added new tiles but retained the same old features identically.

Just as a final note, these new tiles also have a wholly new watermark that is unlikely to appear on current versions of The River except when the tiles include the Hills & Sheep special features.

Therefore, I feel that this new rendition of The River is in all actuality The River III – a relatively lazy update of the first River expansion but clearly a successor and not simply a repackaging of it. The differences are on par with similar differences between other numbered expansions and that alone qualifies the numeral III.

Any thoughts?

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=966.0

Offline Tacita

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2014, 05:40:30 PM »
Any thoughts?
This is the same old bullshit they put out regularly. New tiles, impossible to get a hold of unless you either wait (and hope) until they sell it over priced at their store, or pay through your nose to get a lot of stuff that you already own.

"We do not want to make someone buy a whole set just to get a few new cards. We like our fans!" - Donald X Vaccarino

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Offline Whaleyland

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 06:37:25 PM »
Oh, I entirely agree with that. And I think the sheer difficulty of obtaining these specific River I alternate tiles also helps prove my case that this really is The River III. While I think Big Box 5 looks excellent, I too am upset that new material is being included with no assurity that it will soon be released as a stand alone as well. Wheel of Fortune is in desperate need of a reprint anyway and I will be quite ticked off if the reprint is only 12 tiles plus the Wheel and pig. That's just about the same number of tiles as other expansions but it neglects the remaining 7 tiles that were a statistical part of the expansion.

Offline SRBO

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2014, 12:48:40 AM »

Therefore, I feel that this new rendition of The River is in all actuality The River III – a relatively lazy update of the first River expansion but clearly a successor and not simply a repackaging of it. The differences are on par with similar differences between other numbered expansions and that alone qualifies the numeral III.

Any thoughts?

I already tried in a previous post, so i agree on it! but Kettlefish, keeps saying, no its river I

its the same as the crop circles, repackaged, but still crop circle I & II

Offline Jéré

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2014, 06:13:19 AM »

The differences between The River and the new version are obvious, as well. The addition of four tiles depicting Hills & Sheep features is a vast change compared to the simple graphical differences between Wind Rose I and Wind Rose II. Similarly, though the tiles are the same the addition of new features puts it on par with Corn Circles I and Corn Circles II, which added new tiles but retained the same old features identically.

As far as I know, Wind Roses II does not exist. It is not in the CAR and does not have a BGG entry either. Why? Simply because they have similar tile configuration.

Corn Circles I and Corn Circles II have different tile configuration, hence the increment in the version number.

The new river (yes, I agree it is different) has same tile config as River I, only updated graphics, and therefore version number should not change. Then how should we handle this in CAR? Just like in The Wind Roses Tile Distribution page (see image below) where different versions are shown. For the River I Tile Distribution we should see something like "Original Version (2001)" and then "Big Box 5 Version (2014)" and perhaps a footnote that clarifies the meaning of the new graphics and suggest to visit the Hills & Sheep section for further details... and of course that these can be ignored if you don't play with Hills & Sheep expansion, just like you would ignore the volcano in the River II when you don't play with Princess & Dragon.





Offline rfielder

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2014, 07:13:33 AM »
The addition of four tiles depicting Hills & Sheep features is a vast change compared to the simple graphical differences between Wind Rose I and Wind Rose II.
Are these four tiles also included with Hills & Sheep? Or are they available separately?
Robert Fielder
Brampton, Ontario, Canada  EST

Offline Jéré

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2014, 07:33:09 AM »
No, volcano tile from River II is also not included with Princess & Dragon.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2014, 08:52:32 AM »
There is also an Inn in River II.

Offline SRBO

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2014, 10:02:18 AM »
There is also an Inn in River II.

They should have added one with this box also..

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2014, 10:48:11 AM »
Well yeah. I don't see why HiG decided to modify their oldest expansion with the addition of components from their newest expansion. They should have actually made a new river expansion. And they also should have added an Inn and the first Wheel of the Wheel of Fortune. That would have made it more relevant to the Big Box as a whole rather than just to one of the expansions in it.

Offline coyote

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2014, 12:43:02 PM »
I actually vote no -
Since the layout of the tiles didn't change, to me they're the same tiles. Just have added graphics for 'newer' features.
I'd only consider it a third River if the tile layouts changed..

Offline danisthirty

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2014, 02:37:21 PM »
If the tiles with the features from some of the other expansions alter the way the game is played with River 3 over River 1 then I think it could be argued that this is more than just new graphics, as two games which were otherwise exactly the same but for River 1 or 3 could play out quite differently.

However, I think I still see it as River 1 for the time being although I reserve the right to change my mind if I ever get to own it. The way things are going right now though, it seems to be becoming increasingly difficult to get hold of every different tile for the completionists among us...

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2014, 04:18:39 PM »
However, I think I still see it as River 1 for the time being although I reserve the right to change my mind if I ever get to own it. The way things are going right now though, it seems to be becoming increasingly difficult to get hold of every different tile for the completionists among us...
I think I agree with you here. And yes, things are growing increasingly difficult with The Besiegers and this new River expansion as some of the hardest things to obtain released by Hans im Glück (much like The Festival originally was).

I have a follow up argument. The Cathars and The Siege are technically the same expansion with near-identical rules and identical configurations. The only difference is the artwork (a successfully siege versus a siege-in-progress). Still, I, at least, consider them separate expansions for this reason alone. And I have played both expansions together.

Expansion expansions:
The River & The River II
The Corn Circles & The Corn Circles II

Altered Reprints:
The Cathars (Spielbox) / The Siege (RGG) / The Besiegers (HiG)
The River (original) / The River (BB5)
Wheel of Fortune (original) / Wheel of Fortune (BB5)
The Wind Rose (HiG) / The Wind Rose (Spielbox)
The Cult (HiG) / The Cult (Spielbox) / The Cult (RGG)

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2014, 12:23:17 PM »
I agree that this should be the River III, because of the new artwork and new rules to go with those tiles. Certainly I wouldn't feel my collection was complete without this new river separate from River .

I also consider there to be a Windroses I & II, which is not the opinion of the CAR, so I might just think differently about things :)

Offline CKorfmann

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Re: A Case for Calling the New River I The River III
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2014, 08:15:20 AM »
Do we have scans of these new tiles somewhere?
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