Author Topic: Extend VS Complete for a Builder  (Read 4891 times)

Offline rfielder

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Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« on: June 06, 2014, 07:52:04 AM »
I may have been misreading the rules regarding the second tile draw when using the builder.

The rules state:
"Effect: Whenever the player places a tile that extends the road or city which includes their builder, they may take a double turn."

The CAR has a footnote that states:
"48 This is a change from the original rules, which stated that the tile must

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=818.0
Robert Fielder
Brampton, Ontario, Canada  EST

Offline Carcking

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2014, 11:00:53 AM »
rfielder, I think your post got cut off.
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline rfielder

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2014, 11:49:04 AM »
Trying again:

I may have been misreading the rules regarding the second tile draw when using the builder.

The rules state:
"Effect: Whenever the player places a tile that extends the road or city which includes their builder, they may take a double turn."

The CAR has a footnote that states:
"48 This is a change from the original rules, which stated that the tile must 'complete or extend' the feature."

I am confused - do you draw a second tile when you complete a feature, such as a city or road which has a builder?

Or is it only when you extend without completing the feature?

Offline Paul

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2014, 06:11:49 PM »
If the tile you place extend or complete a road or a city where your builder is on, you get to take another turn after you completed the first one, no matter what.

Some variations state you MAY or MUST but either way, I can't think of anyone passing up an extra turn anyway.
  The double turn is counted as one singular turn per se so, for example the dragon effect takes place after your second turn.

 :meeple:
World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2014, 10:11:59 PM »
..
  The double turn is counted as one singular turn per se so, for example the dragon effect takes place after your second turn.

 :meeple:
first turn: drew and place the tile with dragon symbol - the player extended (or extended and finished) the city where his builder is...
After the placement of that tile, the player may place a follower on that tile or move the fairy, then the dragon is moving before the scoring for the first tile takes place. Then the player drew the second tile (the double turn) place it after that he can place a figure (follower... on the tile), then the scoring for the second tile take place.

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 10:39:03 PM »
??
Quote
for example the dragon effect takes place after your second turn.
??

The dragon move is before scoring of the first part of the double turn, if you draw another dragon tile there is a second dragon move before the scoring of the second part of the double turn.

But you only get points for the fairy standing near your follower before drawing the first tile.


Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2014, 02:56:56 AM »
I think the difference in wording between complete and extend is to deal with the Abbey tiles, iirc. If you complete a city / road with a normal tile you have also extended it by one tile, so you get a builder turn. However if you complete it with an abbey it has not been extended, so you do not get a builder turn.

Does that sound right to everyone?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 02:59:17 AM »
I think the difference in wording between complete and extend is to deal with the Abbey tiles, iirc. If you complete a city / road with a normal tile you have also extended it by one tile, so you get a builder turn. However if you complete it with an abbey it has not been extended, so you do not get a builder turn.

Does that sound right to everyone?
Yes that is correct.

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 03:16:50 AM »
We had a long discussion about "Abbey and Builder", I don't know any results, but in my opinion there is only a builder turn if the city or street was extended. Completing without extending should not give a builder-turn.

Offline rfielder

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 05:28:18 AM »
We had a long discussion about "Abbey and Builder", I don't know any results, but in my opinion there is only a builder turn if the city or street was extended. Completing without extending should not give a builder-turn.
That was how I read the rules as well.  However, the JCoisterZone game does not work this way, and nobody has been complaining, so I thought it wise to see if our interpretation of the rules was in error.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2014, 06:36:23 AM »
I had a telephone call with HiG (Georg Wild) - 23.11.2013:

The Abbey tile doesn't expand a feature like a city, the Abbey tile finished only the feature (example: city)
- result no double turn for the builder

see CarcF (it's in German):
http://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=1286#p9748
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 06:53:58 AM by kettlefish »

Offline Carcking

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 06:47:26 AM »
You get the extended builder turn when you extend (whether completing or not) a feature that includes your builder. An abbey does not extend a feature. The CAR is correct on this point.

I would note that the builder turn is not a true double turn (as there are aspects of a turn that are not doubled), but rather an extended turn which includes second occurances of certain aspects of a regular turn (such as drawing and placing a tile and a wood move). The CAR could be written more clearly on this point IMO.

Offline rfielder

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2014, 03:10:07 PM »
I would note that the builder turn is not a true double turn (as there are aspects of a turn that are not doubled), but rather an extended turn which includes second occurances of certain aspects of a regular turn (such as drawing and placing a tile and a wood move). The CAR could be written more clearly on this point IMO.
I think that footnote #53 on page 33 of CAR V7.0r2 covers that very clearly.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Extend VS Complete for a Builder
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 06:51:57 PM »
I would note that the builder turn is not a true double turn (as there are aspects of a turn that are not doubled), but rather an extended turn which includes second occurances of certain aspects of a regular turn (such as drawing and placing a tile and a wood move). The CAR could be written more clearly on this point IMO.
I think that footnote #53 on page 33 of CAR V7.0r2 covers that very clearly.

Ah, yes. Good. Thanks for pointing that out.  :(y)


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