Author Topic: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars  (Read 8903 times)

Offline kettlefish

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Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« on: May 24, 2014, 11:28:44 PM »
The rule book of Z-man Games (ZMG) for "Bridges, Castles and Bazaars" is quite different than the original German rules from HiG also different than the rules from Rio Grande Games (RGG).

I find it awful, that the rules from ZMG are changing the rules completely - I think they (ZMG) have a really free interpretation of the original German rule - much fantasy a fairy story....

Here in this thread, I will show some examples for this expansion...

(MAROON: my own words)

I do my own translation of the German rules here in this thread... So I think a better translation is written in the CAR. The CAR follows the German rules from HiG.

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=800.0
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 12:34:06 AM by kettlefish »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2014, 11:42:50 PM »
Bazaar:

Translation of the German rule - HiG:
Quote
"At the beginning of the game, it is possible that the player have less than 0 points through the bazaar."

ZMG rule:
Quote
"A player may not bid more points than he has.
If a bazaar tile is drawn and all players have 0 points, play this bazaar round according to the variant rules."
-----------------------------------------
Analysis rule ZMG:

Quote
A player may not bid more points than he has.

Completely different rule than the original German rule.
The German rule allowed less points than 0 points.

Quote
If a bazaar tile is drawn and all players have 0 points, play this bazaar round according to the variant rules.
This sentense does not exists in the German rule. And the German rule never says anything in this direction.
So ZMG tells some fairy stories... The variant in the German rule is a free possibility of game play for the bazaar, not a sort of "have to" play...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 11:33:23 AM by kettlefish »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2014, 12:25:08 AM »
Castle:

Translation of the German rule - HiG:
Quote
"If a player is building a small city - two half rounded city segments - then the owner of this small city can decide if he scores the small city (4 points) or if he update this small city into a castle. If the owner (of this small city) build the castle he places one of his castle tokens on the top of the city and puts that follower into the castle which already stands on that small city. A small city which is updated into a castle is not finished."

ZMG rule:
Quote
"When a player finishes a small city - a city consisting only of two city end segments - the owner of the city chooses whether to score 4 points, as normal, or to make it into a castle. If the player decides to make the small city into a castle, he covers it with a castle token from his supply and the follower remains. A follower in a castle is called a lord."
-----------------------------------------
Analysis rule ZMG:

Quote
A follower in a castle is called a lord

This sentense does not exist in the German rule. In the German rule book is not a special new name for the follower on the top of a castle. In the German BigBox rule (last page) it says that a follower on a castle is called: knight (the same name like a follower in a city).

Quote
...a city consisting only of two city end segments...
The German rules stated: "two half rounded city segments"
A triangled city segment is not allowed to be a part from such a small city for the update to a castle.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 12:58:37 AM by kettlefish »

Offline asparagus

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 02:40:23 AM »
I quite like this terminology of "lord" and "fief". I think it is useful and helpful in the same way as "heretic" and "shrine". It is a shame it was not official from HiG.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 03:08:14 AM »
I quite like this terminology of "lord" and "fief". I think it is useful and helpful in the same way as "heretic" and "shrine". It is a shame it was not official from HiG.

neither "lord" nor "fief" was ever used in the correct German rule.

English word: fief - German word: Lehen
-------------------------------------------------
Translation of the German rule - HiG:
Quote
"The player receives points if the first building (feature) is finished (cloister, city or road) in the vicinity of the castle in a later turn."

ZMG rule:
Quote
"... fief of a castle consists of the 2 tiles of the castle itself, the 2 tiles to its left and the 2 tiles to its right, for a total of a 6-tile fief."
--------------------------------------------
Analysis rule ZMG:

The definition of the "surrounding or vicinity of the castle" - German: "Umgebung der Burg":

The German words: "Umgebung der Burg" (complete different meaning than the word "Lehen")
The correct English words: "Vicinity of the castle"

The German word "Umgebung" means the near surrounding of the castle.

To use new "words" like "lord" or "fief" -
What does ZMG do if HiG really uses these German words "Herr"  (lord) and "Lehen" (fief) in a new expansion for the game Carcassonne?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 08:48:03 AM by kettlefish »

Offline asparagus

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 03:14:43 AM »
What does ZMG do if HiG really uses these German words "Herr"  (lord) and "Lehen" (fief) in a new expansion for the game Carcassonne?

Given previous history I really would not be surprised if that happened.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2014, 07:36:28 AM »
I am surprised that HiG grants so much liberty to ZMG (and other publishers) with regard to the rules. HiG should have retained the last right of authority to ensure continuity of the rules.

But thank goodness for the CAR!
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2014, 07:48:54 AM »
...
But thank goodness for the CAR!
Yes - the CAR is the "bible" for the world of Carcassonne.

Offline Paul

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2014, 07:50:57 AM »
...
But thank goodness for the CAR!
Yes - the CAR is the "bible" for the world of Carcassonne.

I was reluctant using CAR at first but this year, it's the only one I use if other players agree to it. I guess I'm converted.  ;D
World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline Carcking

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2014, 09:28:41 PM »
...
But thank goodness for the CAR!
Yes - the CAR is the "bible" for the world of Carcassonne.

I was reluctant using CAR at first but this year, it's the only one I use if other players agree to it. I guess I'm converted.  ;D

It's an important tool that keeps us unified. It sorts through all the various publisher interpretations, mistakes and omissions and establishes a baseline for discussion and play.

Offline Scott

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2014, 05:22:10 PM »
Whoever is doing the translations over at ZMG is going to keep us in business for a long time. ;D

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 06:59:45 PM »
Whoever is doing the translations over at ZMG is going to keep us in business for a long time. ;D
>:D

Hi Scott,
did you wrote to ZMG that there is the CAR here at CarcC?

Offline Scott

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2014, 07:36:11 AM »
Yes, when they first received the contract I wrote to Kalinda to let her know about our work here.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2014, 09:45:22 AM »
Yes, when they first received the contract I wrote to Kalinda to let her know about our work here.
Did they give you any reply?

Offline Scott

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Re: Z-man - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2014, 07:25:45 AM »
The reply was that they had people internally who would do their own translation. We know how well that turned out for them. ::)


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