My dear boys - you all are talking much - nice....But where can I find an easy clear question???
Quote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 01:53:54 PMMy dear boys - you all are talking much - nice....But where can I find an easy clear question???Could you ask them which of the three models best fits?1.) single feature2.) two features3.) cloister (with the monastery bit a separate feature but guarded by the cloister)
Quote from: asparagus on July 11, 2014, 01:56:48 PMQuote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 01:53:54 PMMy dear boys - you all are talking much - nice....But where can I find an easy clear question???Could you ask them which of the three models best fits?1.) single feature2.) two features3.) cloister (with the monastery bit a separate feature but guarded by the cloister)How often should I give the same answer?one feature - the follower has the choice to as a monk or as an abbot.
Quote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 09:57:28 AMI never said that the German Monastery has two separate features. That is not true.It is one feature, but with the placement of the follower as monk or as abbot the function for this follower changed into cloister (monk) or German Monastery (abbot). It doesn't matter how an other follower is using the German Monastery.Okay, overly nested quotes, but I'm going to roll with it. Because of the special rules of the Flier (it can fly to a feature that's already occupied), both of the above situations from whaleyland and asparagus are valid -- each valid follower gets to make the decision for himself/herself. I think the point that kettlefish was trying to make was that the German Monastery is still only a single feature. Thus, if it is already occupied, you cannot move a wagon there, put a phantom there, or send a follower there through a magic portal.
I never said that the German Monastery has two separate features. That is not true.It is one feature, but with the placement of the follower as monk or as abbot the function for this follower changed into cloister (monk) or German Monastery (abbot). It doesn't matter how an other follower is using the German Monastery.
Quote from: obervet on July 11, 2014, 12:34:51 PMQuote from: whaleyland on July 11, 2014, 12:28:07 PMQuote from: asparagus on July 11, 2014, 12:20:54 PMQuote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 09:57:28 AMI never said that the German Monastery has two separate features. That is not true.It is one feature, but with the placement of the follower as monk or as abbot the function for this follower changed into cloister (monk) or German Monastery (abbot). It doesn't matter how an other follower is using the German Monastery.Your quote seemed pretty clear to me. The following scenario is possible:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places a monk on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously a monk and an abbot.I don't like this but this is how I read the clarification.Indeed, but the most strange scenario that this rule allows is:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places an abbot on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously two abbots.I don't see anywhere in these rules clarifications where this situation is not possible. If the decision is independent, both players can choose both options, correct?Okay, overly nested quotes, but I'm going to roll with it. Because of the special rules of the Flier (it can fly to a feature that's already occupied), both of the above situations from whaleyland and asparagus are valid -- each valid follower gets to make the decision for himself/herself. I think the point that kettlefish was trying to make was that the German Monastery is still only a single feature. Thus, if it is already occupied, you cannot move a wagon there, put a phantom there, or send a follower there through a magic portal.perfect obervet - that is it.
Quote from: whaleyland on July 11, 2014, 12:28:07 PMQuote from: asparagus on July 11, 2014, 12:20:54 PMQuote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 09:57:28 AMI never said that the German Monastery has two separate features. That is not true.It is one feature, but with the placement of the follower as monk or as abbot the function for this follower changed into cloister (monk) or German Monastery (abbot). It doesn't matter how an other follower is using the German Monastery.Your quote seemed pretty clear to me. The following scenario is possible:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places a monk on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously a monk and an abbot.I don't like this but this is how I read the clarification.Indeed, but the most strange scenario that this rule allows is:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places an abbot on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously two abbots.I don't see anywhere in these rules clarifications where this situation is not possible. If the decision is independent, both players can choose both options, correct?Okay, overly nested quotes, but I'm going to roll with it. Because of the special rules of the Flier (it can fly to a feature that's already occupied), both of the above situations from whaleyland and asparagus are valid -- each valid follower gets to make the decision for himself/herself. I think the point that kettlefish was trying to make was that the German Monastery is still only a single feature. Thus, if it is already occupied, you cannot move a wagon there, put a phantom there, or send a follower there through a magic portal.
Quote from: asparagus on July 11, 2014, 12:20:54 PMQuote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 09:57:28 AMI never said that the German Monastery has two separate features. That is not true.It is one feature, but with the placement of the follower as monk or as abbot the function for this follower changed into cloister (monk) or German Monastery (abbot). It doesn't matter how an other follower is using the German Monastery.Your quote seemed pretty clear to me. The following scenario is possible:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places a monk on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously a monk and an abbot.I don't like this but this is how I read the clarification.Indeed, but the most strange scenario that this rule allows is:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places an abbot on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously two abbots.I don't see anywhere in these rules clarifications where this situation is not possible. If the decision is independent, both players can choose both options, correct?
Quote from: kettlefish on July 11, 2014, 09:57:28 AMI never said that the German Monastery has two separate features. That is not true.It is one feature, but with the placement of the follower as monk or as abbot the function for this follower changed into cloister (monk) or German Monastery (abbot). It doesn't matter how an other follower is using the German Monastery.Your quote seemed pretty clear to me. The following scenario is possible:1.) Player A places a German monastery tile and places an abbot.2.) Player B places a file next to the German monastery; rolls a 1 and places a monk on the German monastery.Now the feature holds simultaneously a monk and an abbot.I don't like this but this is how I read the clarification.
Quote from: obervet on July 11, 2014, 12:48:56 PMI guess I don't have as much of an issue with the feature's status. I think of it as one feature that has 2 compartments -- when you put a follower there, you choose which compartment you put the follower in, monastery or cloister. Either one counts as occupation of the feature, but there is still provision for these odd peripheral cases.Since the cloister "compartment" of the feature is active, it seems to me that this would work. (And me using the word "compartment" to describe the situation is going to irritate kettlefish, since she doesn't like when we coin new terms to describe what's going on. )
I guess I don't have as much of an issue with the feature's status. I think of it as one feature that has 2 compartments -- when you put a follower there, you choose which compartment you put the follower in, monastery or cloister. Either one counts as occupation of the feature, but there is still provision for these odd peripheral cases.
Hans im Glück simply doesn't play test most of their expansions together. Something like German Monasteries seems intuitive when played with the base game, but as soon as you begin adding the City, magic portals, fliers, etc., things get quite complicated.
I think that the feature needs to always been seen as a single feature with two choices on it. If it is occupied, a player cannot place another piece on it unless they would normally be allowed to through a special action such as the flier. If a player is able to place on that feature, then they get to make the choice too.
For the Count, I'd say that the feature does not count as a cloister. Period. A monk can go on it and score it like a cloister, but it is not a cloister, it is a monastery. Cloisters don't give you a choice while monasteries do.
Quote from: obervet on July 11, 2014, 01:22:56 PMChristian H. is another person with his finger on the pulse of Carcassonne rules.Where is this web page?
Christian H. is another person with his finger on the pulse of Carcassonne rules.
section: "Cathedral" - the followers in this section are placed on a cloister (follower as a monk).The "German Monasteries" - only the function as a cloister (follower as a monk) - YESThe "German Monasteries" - the function as a "German Monastery" (follower as a abbot) - NO.But I can ask HiG if you like.
Also auch wenn in der Regel Mönch gestanden hätte, würde das nicht den "Abt" auf dem Deutschen Kloster ausschließen.
But the Cult Places have nothing to do with the German Monasteries...
As alluded to on other threads, I think the HiG design philosophy is a little different from yours. You're a lumper, as you like to be able to categorize all of the different features as 1 of only a few base types. They are splitters, since they want each type of feature to be a distinct thing.
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