Author Topic: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules  (Read 4586 times)

Offline kettlefish

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Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« on: December 09, 2013, 11:46:22 PM »
Some major expansions and some mini expansions have become new updates of the rules from the publisher HiG.

The CAR follows the German rules from HiG.

The following link: I am posting all the differences what I have found out in the German rules.

German Rules at HiG Homepage - new Version 2013

The official English rules:
problem here is that we have now two different versions, because of the change from the old license partner RGG (Rio Grande Games) to the new license partner ZMG (Z-man Games).

I have checked some words because of the new translation from ZMG. They uses other words than RGG. Here we have the dictionary. But I think it is still not complete finished.
Dictionary - World of the Game Carcassonne - German/English

The dictionary has nothing to do with the rule (how to play) itself. It shows the differences of translation.
example:
Wappen - pennant (CAR+RGG) / banner (ZMG+RGG-mini2+5)

The most problem is: which of the German rules was the basis for the translation?

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=539.0
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 02:31:33 AM by kettlefish »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 12:12:07 AM »
Here comes some talk between me and obervet about this problems.

Quote
kettlefish - December 09, 2013, 15:37
You have some work to do with the expansion "princess and the dragon".

I have to look at 4 different versions of the rule and also at 3 different BigBox rules.
Sometimes it isn't an easy job...

The expansion "princess and the dragon" has so much text and the rules changed here and there...
Quote
obervet - December 09, 2013, 19:34
I have started working on the updates to Princess and the Dragon. I didn't realize that there were so many different versions of the rules from HiG. I should go look and see how the ZMG version compares too, since RGG kept using the older rules for the Princess tiles.
Quote
obervet - December 09, 2013, 19:43
I just looked at the ZMG rules, and they kept the old rule for the Princess -- the player must remove a knight if there is one to remove. They also kept some of the incorrect Fairy rules, so it seems like they mostly just copied the RGG rules rather than translating a newer version of the HiG rules.
Quote
kettlefish - December 09, 2013, 19:49
Yes even the tower at Z-man games has the old rules.
I think also the Traders and Builders (builder and pig)...

I talked to Moritz today and told him that we (the community)
have problems, because of the "old" or "new" rules.
What is now the "right" rule...

But I do my best and look which of the rules are the "newest".
And what is also important from an older version of the rules...
The princess is really not easy.
But yes I know - Z-man games has the old rule "must" or "have to" remove a follower.

Perhaps the CAR needs two colours of the rule:
one colour with the zman games rule and one colour with the HiG rule, and than we have also the rules from RGG...
Quote
obervet - December 10, 2013, 04:24
Putting major rules differences in a different color, rather than just in footnotes, might be a good idea. I'll have to think about that and see how complicated it would be to add that to the CAR.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 12:25:37 AM »
Here comes an example picture of the new rule (version 2013) for the "Fairy".

I know it is in German, but you can see all the arrows an surroundings around the different text to the older version.

HiG German rule major expansion version 2013
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 02:27:51 AM by kettlefish »

Offline Carcking

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 06:51:02 PM »
Quote
obervet - December 10, 2013, 04:24
Putting major rules differences in a different color, rather than just in footnotes, might be a good idea. I'll have to think about that and see how complicated it would be to add that to the CAR.

I think it would be best to stay loyal to one rule set (HiG) and footnote the variances, as we have been doing. I believe adding color coding in an effort to include the variations within the text would be very cumbersome to read and would ultimately be confusing. IMHO  ::)

Such a conflict in the rules should be treated as any other bit that requires clarification. The footnotes are used to indicate the clarification is necessary/pending. I believe rule variations should be handled the same way.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 06:53:49 PM by Carcking »
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline Scott

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 07:59:55 PM »
I agree with Carcking; we should stand by Matt's original decision to follow the HiG rules. One of the things I like about the CAR is that we are encouraging worldwide consistency. It's hard enough helping people with rules questions; we don't need additional complication by having to provide multiple answers depending on which version of the rules each person chooses to follow.

Offline obervet

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 08:33:18 PM »
Quote
obervet - December 10, 2013, 04:24
Putting major rules differences in a different color, rather than just in footnotes, might be a good idea. I'll have to think about that and see how complicated it would be to add that to the CAR.

I think it would be best to stay loyal to one rule set (HiG) and footnote the variances, as we have been doing. I believe adding color coding in an effort to include the variations within the text would be very cumbersome to read and would ultimately be confusing. IMHO  ::)

Such a conflict in the rules should be treated as any other bit that requires clarification. The footnotes are used to indicate the clarification is necessary/pending. I believe rule variations should be handled the same way.

I wholeheartedly agree that the last thing I should do is make the CAR more confusing -- parts of it are cumbersome enough as it is. My plan is to keep the single (HiG) version of the rules as the main text, and keep the variants in the footnotes. The only change I plan to make is to also color the HiG rules that are currently significantly different than the RGG or ZMG rules to emphasize that there are discrepancies. Since there are so many footnotes in some of the sections, I think that this might highlight the most important differences without adding to the wordiness.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 11:52:15 PM »
We have in the footnotes the double arrow. Perhaps it can get different colours.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 03:22:22 AM »
obervet - can you make the footnote reference number in a different color, without changing the color of the text in the main document?

Offline obervet

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 05:11:10 AM »
We have in the footnotes the double arrow. Perhaps it can get different colours.

obervet - can you make the footnote reference number in a different color, without changing the color of the text in the main document?

I can certainly do that.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Conclusions for the CAR because of the new German rules
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2013, 11:10:30 AM »
Excellent!!


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