Author Topic: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?  (Read 7325 times)

Offline JT Atomico

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Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« on: November 09, 2013, 08:48:47 AM »
Very quick rules question. When scoring for the King (from King & Robber Baron) at the end of the game, do you get one point for the City of Carcassonne itself (from Count of Carcassonne)?

My guess is that you should, since this city is counted for farms at the end of the game, according to footnote 68 of S-CAR v6.3:

Quote
68 The city of Carcassonne does count when scoring farms at the end of the game.


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=516.0

Offline obervet

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 09:55:18 AM »
I would agree with your assessment -- if it's enough of a city to get farm points for it, you should definitely be able to get a King point from it. Interesting that this hasn't officially come up before (to my knowledge)...

Offline Scott

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 04:56:33 PM »
The King scores a point for every completed city. Although the City of Carcassonne is complete, it was not completed by anyone during the course of the game. It was complete from the beginning of the game. On those grounds, I don't expect it would be worth a point to the holder of the King tile.

Offline wicke

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 02:02:50 AM »
Scott: why should the City of Carcassonne be counted for farmers but not for the King ?
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Offline aenima

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 09:22:06 AM »
hello to everybody!
mmmm so? count or not?  :)

Offline obervet

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 10:09:59 AM »
For the time being, I think you'll have to house rule it. Obviously I have my own opinion and reasoning (see above), but at this point it looks like players will just have to agree to a ruling when the game starts. I have added the question to the official list for kettlefish's next chat with HiG, and I have added a dreaded red footnote to the upcoming CAR (which I should get out in December).

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 01:38:26 PM »
Scott: why should the City of Carcassonne be counted for farmers but not for the King ?

You have to fight for the field, so you have to do something for it. If the city of Carcassonne should count for the King the first time you get the King tile would be if you complete a city of 13 tiles because the City of Carcassonne has 12 tiles.

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 02:52:12 PM »
If the city of Carcassonne should count for the King the first time you get the King tile would be if you complete a city of 13 tiles because the City of Carcassonne has 12 tiles.

I disagree with this. The rules say:

Quote
The King starts the game at the side of the playing field. As soon as a player completes the first city, he or she should take the King tile. If, during the course of play, another player completes a larger city - which means he or she places the final tile of this city - then he or she receives the king.

It is clear then that only cities completed by players count towards ownership of the King.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 02:54:02 PM by JT Atomico »

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 10:53:10 PM »
I wrote:
Quote
If the city of Carcassonne should count ...

I didn't say that I'd agree to this, but it shows why it is unreasonable to count the City of Carcassonne for the King points.

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 12:11:27 AM »
I wrote:
Quote
If the city of Carcassonne should count ...

I didn't say that I'd agree to this, but it shows why it is unreasonable to count the City of Carcassonne for the King points.

What I'm saying is that I don't agree that one leads to the other. It is possible to consider completed cities separately form cities that are completed by a player.

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 12:15:42 AM »
I have added a dreaded red footnote to the upcoming CAR (which I should get out in December).

Nooooo! That wasn't what I wanted when I asked the question...

I don't think we need it, I've been reading up a bit more and I think that the answer can be deduced from the current rules and clarifications.

The rules for farms say:

Quote
The owner (or owners) of the farm score 3 points for every completed city which borders the farm, or lies within it.

and the relevant footnote says:

Quote
The city of Carcassonne does count when scoring farms at the end of the game.

From that we can infer that the city of Carcassonne counts as a completed city. The rules for the King say that:

Quote
At the end of the game, the player in possession of the King scores 1 point for every completed city.

so, since the city of Carcassonne is a completed city then it should be worth one point to the King at the end of the game.

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 07:19:51 AM »
I'm not a native speaker, but I think the City of Carcassonne was ever a complete city, but it was never completed.



Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 01:48:19 PM »
I'm not a native speaker, but I think the City of Carcassonne was ever a complete city, but it was never completed.

Fritz, the point that I was trying to make was that both rules (for farms and for the King) talk about completed cities, so the City of Carcassonne should be treated the same for both. Hence since it is counted as a city for farms, it should also be counted for the King.

Offline wicke

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2013, 12:20:55 AM »
I agree with you JT Atomico, 100%.
I don't see why Fritz was talking about the ownership of the King, that was never the issue.
The issue was that the City of Carcassonne should be counted both for farmers and the King, at the end of the game.

Offline 24hourpartymeeple

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Re: Does the City of Carcassonne count for the King?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2013, 05:24:01 AM »
Where in the official rules does it state that the City of Carcassonne is counted for farming?


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