Author Topic: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query  (Read 419 times)

Offline corinthiens13

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 531
  • Merit: 35
    • View Profile
    • Order of play in french with every major expansions, mini expansions and promo tiles :
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2021, 01:08:01 PM »
It is a different abbot role  ;D

Meepledrone, we need your insight and wisdom here  :yellow-meeple:
Order of play in french with every major expansions, minis and promos:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=346

Divider cards for CI & CII both in French & English:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=535

Offline DIN0

  • Count
  • **
  • Posts: 368
  • Merit: 15
  • Carcassonne is only complete with 11th expansion:)
    • View Profile
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2021, 04:14:28 PM »
Or more like HiG statement/clarification, as I do not believe this has been specified anywhere, so far.
But going by the usual logic, it really must be monk.

The Abbot figure is a specialized meeple for monastic buildings, just like Mayor is a specialized meeple for cities. When they are placed in their respective features, they assume the same roles as any meeple would in that feature - monk in monastic buildings, and knight in cities. The Mayor meeple placed in city is called a knight, not a mayor. Likewise, Abbot meeple placed in monastic building is called a monk, because that is his function/job.
A garden is a feature accesible only to Abbot meeples, and it works analogously to cloisters. Abbot meeples also play the same role as they would in cloister. Therefore Abbot meeples in gardens, are monks.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 04:26:29 PM by DIN0 »

Online Meepledrone

  • Global Moderator
  • Viscount Chevalier
  • *
  • Posts: 3299
  • Merit: 198
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2021, 01:09:37 AM »
The rules do not mention the role of an abbot placed in a garden. So, when designing a role for an abbot in a garden, we might say it is an "abbot" (after the meeple type in order to stress a garden is not a monastery) or a "monk" (after the role it would have if placed on a monastic building) for the sake of completeness, but bearing in mind a garden is not a monastic building. I haven't seen any reference to "gardener" so far.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline corinthiens13

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 531
  • Merit: 35
    • View Profile
    • Order of play in french with every major expansions, mini expansions and promo tiles :
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2021, 01:11:58 AM »
I was just kidding when mentioning "gardener"  ;D

And so... Counted or not by the WoF's inquisition?

Online Meepledrone

  • Global Moderator
  • Viscount Chevalier
  • *
  • Posts: 3299
  • Merit: 198
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2021, 01:26:59 AM »
So far I prefer the "abbot" role because it avoids this kind of issues. I would leave abbots in gardens out for the time being.

This is something HiG should clarify, but we suspect that maybe we may have no reply for a while, if any. Fingers crossed.

Topic added to my list of questions...  ;D

Offline Vital Pluymers

  • Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 152
  • Merit: 2
  • The King
    • View Profile
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2021, 01:42:34 AM »
If you check this clarification (original text in German, see translation below), it indicates that meeples placed as abbots on a German monastery are still considered monks. This would also apply to other special monasteries such as Dutch & Belgian monasteries or Japanese buildings. 
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=781.msg9971#msg9971

Here you are the translation into English:
Quote
Since the rule for the flier is older, as is known, we did not know that one day a follower could also be placed as an abbot on the monastery (German monastery). So even if in the rule would have said "monk", this would not exclude the "abbot" on the German monastery. Thus, the flier can choose to land as Monk or Abbot on the German Monastery."

Conclusion: if the rule of an older extension speaks only of monk, that does not exclude the abbot on the German monastery.

Yeah... That's why I said the debate about this may still be open...

This interpretation seems really unlogical to me !

Acrobats didn't exist when WoF was released, so why not count acrobats too?  ;D

Monk is a role, abbot on a monastery is another. Rule is so simple, 2 points per monk, no ambiguity, why then separate role and position to make a rule strange, difficult to understand...etc?

Heretic was the only possible role other than monk on a feature with cloister mechanic back then. So, by the same interpretation you mentioned, we may conclude:
If the rule of an older expansion speaks only of heretic, that does not exclude the abbot on the German monastery (so if heretic role isnn't counted, abbot role neither) :yellow-meeple:

I agree with corinthiens13 on this one. I believe that this clarification was only meant for the placement of meeples on potential features that could be claimed, for instance by fliers, magic portals, catapult seductions, the arrows of the jubilee editions, etc.
In the beginning of Carcassonne, it seemed a good idea to list all the possible meeple roles that were fitted for a specific new mechanic. But with more and more expansions appearing over the years, this approach turned out to be a bad one. Nowadays it seems much better to list all the meeple roles that are not permitted, e.g. "fliers cannot land on fields".

A meeple as a monk vs a meeple as an abbot are two completely different mechanics. In my humble opinion, they are never related. So, I don't include them when counting monks for the WoF. Furthermore, I sincerely believe that it should not be allowed to move meeples from the "Cathedral district" of the City of Carcassonne to cloisters as an abbot at the end of the game (Yes, I play according to the C1 rules which allow all the meeples not blocked by the Count to be moved to the playing area.)

Offline corinthiens13

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 531
  • Merit: 35
    • View Profile
    • Order of play in french with every major expansions, mini expansions and promo tiles :
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2021, 03:21:14 AM »
Agreed  :yellow-meeple:

Online Meepledrone

  • Global Moderator
  • Viscount Chevalier
  • *
  • Posts: 3299
  • Merit: 198
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Wheel of Fortune and religious figures query
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2021, 05:13:17 AM »
I posted a question on Discord about all this yesterday. Let's see if we get a satisfactory reply.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
WTS English Writings Wheel of Fortune board + 19 fortune tiles expansion

Started by DavidY

3 Replies
2747 Views
Last post May 19, 2016, 10:34:27 PM
by asparagus
xx
WTB Wheel of Fortune that came with Big Box 5

Started by BabyGamer

35 Replies
16197 Views
Last post March 08, 2015, 02:09:06 PM
by Safari
xx
WTB Wheel of Fortune

Started by toastytoast

19 Replies
7608 Views
Last post September 28, 2016, 09:28:12 PM
by toastytoast
xx
WTB - Wheel of Fortune

Started by thehindujesus

4 Replies
2548 Views
Last post January 26, 2015, 05:29:57 AM
by BabyGamer
xx
Wheel of Fortune

Started by eddebaby

21 Replies
10513 Views
Last post November 04, 2014, 07:46:07 AM
by eddebaby