Author Topic: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege  (Read 358 times)

Offline Allograft

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Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« on: February 22, 2021, 03:53:40 PM »
Apologies if this is annoying, but would someone mind clarifying for me about the Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege. I've consulted the wikicarpedia and the profile settings, but am still unsure.
There's:
The Cathars (Die Katharer)
Siege (part of Cult, Siege, & Creativity)
The Besiegers (Die Belagerer)
Spielbox 2004/5: The Cathars

1) Is The Cathars (Die Katharer) the same thing as Spielbox 2004/5: The Cathars?
2) Is Die Katharer the same as Die Belagerer?
3a) Cult, Siege, & Creativity, was the Cult, Siege, and Creativity. The Cult was later incorporated into Count, King & Robber. It seems like the later Count, King & Robber only has 5 tiles whereas the original cult had 6. Is that correct?
3b) Creativity was two blank tiles. That leave the Siege...was it incorporated into Die Belagerer (even though Wikicarpedia seems to indicate that Die Belagerer is an update Die Katharer)? Is there any difference in the two?

Some clarity as to what is unique and what is redundant would be appreciated. -  :pink-meeple:

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5078.0
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 04:00:09 PM by Allograft »

Online corinthiens13

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2021, 09:16:49 PM »
Hi,

Names are just the English - German names, but each reprint was different (and from a different publisher)

The Cathars = Die Katharer = published by Spielbox 2004/5 = 4 tiles, with broken walls

Siege = published by RGG = 4 tiles, with intact walls

The besiegers = Die Belagerer = published by HiG = 6 tiles, with broken walls

Look at the tile distribution section on WICA to see the differences between each tiles.  :yellow-meeple:

I personally own only the besiegers, I prefer its design, and it's the only 6 tiles mini  ;)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 11:06:05 PM by corinthiens13 »
Order of play in french with every major expansions, minis and promos:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=346

Divider cards for CI & CII both in French & English:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=535

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2021, 09:40:57 PM »
Made some corrections.  C:-)

Hi,

Names are just the English - German names, but each reprint was different (and from a different publisher)

The Cathars = Die Katharer = published by Spielbox 2004/5 and Spielbox Der Carcassonne Almanach = 4 tiles, with broken walls

Siege = published by RGG exclusively in Cult, Siege & Creativity = 4 tiles, with intact walls

The besiegers = Die Belagerer = published by HiG in the Carcassonne Müller Exklusiv-Edition and then later on Cundco = 6 tiles, with broken walls

Look at the tile distribution section on WICA to see the differences between each tiles.  :yellow-meeple:  There are tiny differences between each expansion rules-wise, although they are minor.

I personally own only the besiegers, I prefer their design, and it's the only 6 tiles mini  ;) (except The Corn Circles, The Corn Circles II, The Plague, The Windroses, The Monasteries, German Cathedrals, German Castles, The Fruit-Bearing Trees, and The Barber Surgeons  >:D )

Offline Allograft

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2021, 10:04:48 PM »
Good stuff. Thanks much. So much to learn. -  :pink-meeple:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 10:11:19 PM by Allograft »

Online corinthiens13

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2021, 10:07:09 PM »
Made some corrections.  C:-)

I personally own only the besiegers, I prefer their design, and it's the only 6 tiles mini  ;) (except The Corn Circles, The Corn Circles II, The Plague, The Windroses, The Monasteries, German Cathedrals, German Castles, The Fruit-Bearing Trees, and The Barber Surgeons  >:D )

I was referring to those 3 minis we're talking about, of course there are other 6 tiles minis  ;D  ;D ;D

Offline Allograft

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2021, 10:11:03 PM »
I know that there was a poll for favorite major expansion recently, but this thread has sparked interest if there is a preference amongst the minis -  :pink-meeple:

Online totec55

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2021, 10:25:34 PM »
I know that there was a poll for favorite major expansion recently, but this thread has sparked interest if there is a preference amongst the minis -  :pink-meeple:

I do not think I could narrow down a single favorite mini! We generally include at least one per game. The ferries probably gets picked the most. My kids enjoy moving it back and forth. I enjoy the fruit bearing trees. Simple, but a nice addition. Most everyone I play with cringe at the crop circles, but I like it.

I just picked up Der Tunnel, Cathars, and Castles this past week. Looking forward to giving them a go!

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2021, 10:57:53 PM »
Here is link to WiCa to compare tiles in each mini expansion
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Besiegers_Cathars_Siege_(1st_edition)#Tile_distribution

For me, I preffer Cathards with broken wall and symbol on City (like Princess)

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2021, 11:03:31 PM »
My favourite version of these three expansions is definitely Besiegers because it seems the most consistent with the rest of the expansions, but Cathars still holds a very respectable position due to its attempt to actually adapt something historical, which is a very rare thing in this game.

Online corinthiens13

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2021, 11:05:23 PM »
I know that there was a poll for favorite major expansion recently, but this thread has sparked interest if there is a preference amongst the minis -  :pink-meeple:

I do not think I could narrow down a single favorite mini! We generally include at least one per game. The ferries probably gets picked the most. My kids enjoy moving it back and forth. I enjoy the fruit bearing trees. Simple, but a nice addition. Most everyone I play with cringe at the crop circles, but I like it.

I just picked up Der Tunnel, Cathars, and Castles this past week. Looking forward to giving them a go!

I can't pick one either... My favorites are river I and II, goldmines, ferries, the school, phantom and labyrinths. And I love to play with the spiel 2014 - 2020 and the Russian promos because of their beautiful look on the game  :yellow-meeple:

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2021, 02:43:43 AM »
I know that there was a poll for favorite major expansion recently, but this thread has sparked interest if there is a preference amongst the minis -  :pink-meeple:

I do not think I could narrow down a single favorite mini! We generally include at least one per game. The ferries probably gets picked the most. My kids enjoy moving it back and forth. I enjoy the fruit bearing trees. Simple, but a nice addition. Most everyone I play with cringe at the crop circles, but I like it.

I just picked up Der Tunnel, Cathars, and Castles this past week. Looking forward to giving them a go!

I can't pick one either... My favorites are river I and II, goldmines, ferries, the school, phantom and labyrinths. And I love to play with the spiel 2014 - 2020 and the Russian promos because of their beautiful look on the game  :yellow-meeple:

It's offtopic, but I like Japanese building, they look awesome in game.
Anyway, nice are also Fruit Bearing Trees, Barber Surgeons, German Castles :D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2021, 03:10:38 AM »
Here is link to WiCa to compare tiles in each mini expansion
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Besiegers_Cathars_Siege_(1st_edition)#Tile_distribution

For me, I preffer Cathards with broken wall and symbol on City (like Princess)

This page consolidates the rules for the three mini expansions as you can see, since they share similar rules. All of them affect the city scoring and field scoring in the same way, although The Siege by RGG allows knights to escape from a besieged city with less restrictions than the other two.

As indicated in footnote #5:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Besiegers_Cathars_Siege_(1st_edition)#cite_note-5
Quote
Note that in The Besiegers and The Cathars, a cloister must be placed directly adjacent to a Besieger/Cathars tile to allow a knight to escape. However, RGG's rules for Siege state that a cloister allowing escape can be placed adjacent to any tile of a besieged city (even diagonally). For the sake of consistency, at the beginning of the game it would be useful to select only one of these rules when combining tiles from these sets. Purists can choose the Besiegers/Cathars rule, as it’s the German original, although the RGG Siege rule makes escape much more viable.

As you can see in WICA, this expansion has drawn a lot of attention through the years and therefore the number of reprints and version existing up to date. As I said in other threads, The Besiegers (the HiG version of The Cathars) is my favorite candidate mini expansion to be re-released in C2 this year.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2021, 03:22:02 AM »
As I said in other threads, The Besiegers (the HiG version of The Cathars) is my favorite candidate mini expansion to be re-released in C2 this year.
Maybe this will be missing (unknown) piece of mini expansion in 20th Anniversary edition box :D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2021, 03:29:38 AM »
Regarding Heretics & Shrines with the cult places... Yo can check here some info about the multiple existing versions in C1:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Heretics_and_Shrines_(1st_edition)

As you can see HiG released them first as part of Exp. 6 but Spielbox reprinted it with the Spielbox logo and RGG bundled it with their version of Cathars (The Siege), two blank tiles (Creativity) and adding 1 shrine tile to their version.

In the early days of C1 you will find other expansions that have multiple versions or that were released independently and also budled with others. This also happened to:
* River I (included in some Big Boxes)
* River II (included in Exp. 6)
* The Count of Carcassonne (included in Exp. 6)
* King & Robber (included in Exp. 6)

RGG created their own bundle with Cult, Siege and Creativity. And some other publishers, like Devir made their own C1 bundles throughout the years:
* Exp. 1 included River I
* Exp. 2 included River II
* Exp. 3 included The Count of Carcassonne
* Hunters & Gatherers included King & Robber
So they never published Exp. 6 in C1, this means no Heretics & Shrines either. Actually Devir hasn't published Exp. 6 in C2 yet... I don't know if this trend will be broken, but we are still waiting for Exp. 10.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarity for Besiegers, Cathars, and Siege
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2021, 03:31:03 AM »
As I said in other threads, The Besiegers (the HiG version of The Cathars) is my favorite candidate mini expansion to be re-released in C2 this year.
Maybe this will be missing (unknown) piece of mini expansion in 20th Anniversary edition box :D

Who knows!

They'd make more money if they sell it separately. >:D


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