Author Topic: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig  (Read 376 times)

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2021, 04:02:00 AM »
'If you see a contradiction, please indicate where you see it to help the discussion.'

I mean that if the WICA paragraph is translated from the HiG official rules, it literally surprises me to see how the interpretation has been complicated, falling into contradictions when taking a sentence out of context from a paragraph. I don't mean that the paragraph itself is contradictory but when interpreting it.
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Online corinthiens13

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2021, 04:11:00 AM »
Well, as this is an issue happening when playing the markets of Leipzig with base game only (completing a road leading to Leipzig, a city with pennant and a monastery during the same turn), could HiG answer this question?

This would solve all of our questions about this  8)
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Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2021, 04:11:17 AM »
Contradiction for me, for example, is to read a very specific example in a paragraph and point and followed they tell you something specific and take the last sentence applying it to all cases. More than a contradiction it would be more correct to say a fallacy.
Although the sentence out of context seems to be somewhat general, the context helps to interpret it correctly

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2021, 04:13:18 AM »
Anyway, I take the opportunity to say that the C2 expansions suck  >:D  ;D every time I see it clearer ...

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2021, 04:24:30 AM »
'If you see a contradiction, please indicate where you see it to help the discussion.'

I mean that if the WICA paragraph is translated from the HiG official rules, it literally surprises me to see how the interpretation has been complicated, falling into contradictions when taking a sentence out of context from a paragraph. I don't mean that the paragraph itself is contradictory but when interpreting it.

The paragraph was taken from the rules in English published by HiG. As I mentioned my interpretation was wrong, after reading Just a Bill's post where he analyzed the sentence by sentence out of their context. I just got taken away by his comments... that's all.

The rules say what they say. And so far, it is all we have until we get any clarification from HiG. So we just want to see if we can fill any gaps with a collaborative discussion. If this is not possible, at least we can spot any potential areas where the rules may need clarification. This would help us ask the right questions, I think
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2021, 04:27:48 AM »
Well, as this is an issue happening when playing the markets of Leipzig with base game only (completing a road leading to Leipzig, a city with pennant and a monastery during the same turn), could HiG answer this question?

This would solve all of our questions about this  8)

I agree. HiG wouldn't have any excuse to not clarify this issue.  8)

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2021, 04:28:59 AM »
Anyway, I take the opportunity to say that the C2 expansions suck  >:D  ;D every time I see it clearer ...

What if, all of a sudden, you come across those tiles converted to C1?  >:D

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2021, 04:52:30 AM »
Anyway, I take the opportunity to say that the C2 expansions suck  >:D  ;D every time I see it clearer ...

What if, all of a sudden, you come across those tiles converted to C1?  >:D

Then everything will be fine and it will be a welcome expansion  >:D

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2021, 04:56:59 AM »
The rules say what they say. And so far, it is all we have until we get any clarification from HiG. So we just want to see if we can fill any gaps with a collaborative discussion. If this is not possible, at least we can spot any potential areas where the rules may need clarification. This would help us ask the right questions, I think

I think we should just show HiG this picture:


And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to score the road first, then the city and monastery.
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the wainwrights quarter? Do he get any bonus points for the road? (no, obviously)
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the coiners quarter? Do he get any additional points for the city pennant?
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the bookbinders quarter? Do he get any bonus points for the closed monastery?

As well as this picture:


And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to send one meeple to the wainwright quarter, red doesn't. So one red and one yellow meeples are left on the road. Do yellow:
  • Still have the majority? If so, red doesn't score any points, yellow gets 9 points for the road, and 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.
  • Loses the majority, if so, both red and yellow get 9 points for the road, and yellow gets an additional 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.

I think those questions would solve every possible misinterpretations  ;)

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2021, 06:14:14 AM »
The rules say what they say. And so far, it is all we have until we get any clarification from HiG. So we just want to see if we can fill any gaps with a collaborative discussion. If this is not possible, at least we can spot any potential areas where the rules may need clarification. This would help us ask the right questions, I think

I think we should just show HiG this picture:


And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to score the road first, then the city and monastery.
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the wainwrights quarter? Does he get any bonus points for the road? (no, obviously)
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the coiners quarter? Does he get any additional points for the city pennant?
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the bookbinders quarter? Does he get any bonus points for the closed monastery?

As well as this picture:


And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to send one meeple to the wainwright quarter, red doesn't. So one red and one yellow meeple are left on the road. Do yellow:
  • Still have the majority? If so, red doesn't score any points, yellow gets 9 points for the road, and 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.
  • Loses the majority, if so, both red and yellow get 9 points for the road, and yellow gets an additional 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.

I think those questions would solve every possible misinterpretations  ;)

'Take note:

-If you have more than one meeple on the road you are allowed to send one of them to Leipzig. With the other(s) you can, however, score the points for the road [4]. If you send a meeple into the Wainwrights Quarter you will get the bonus points (see below) immediately. [5] [6]
-If more than one player has the majority, each one can decide on his own whether he wants to send the meeple to Leipzig or if he takes the points.
-The road on the double Land tiles counts merely as one road in a road scoring.'


'If more than one player has the majority, each one can decide on his own whether he wants to send the meeple to Leipzig or if he takes the points.'

It's important to read the context of the paragraph. It refers to BEFORE sending meeples to Leipzig. Therefore evaluating majorities after sending meeple to Leipzig doesn't make any sense.
Mayorities are evaluated BEFORE according to the official phrase.
The red in the second example doesn't score anything. The yellow having a majority and 2 meeples can apply the exception of scoring the bonus and the feature in the same turn if it's placed in the Wainwrights Quarter.
Therefore, linking the context means that if you take that meeple to another quarter, you don't get any bonuses that turn. That ties in with your first example where you close a city and close a monastery. In principle you renounce your scoring to take your meeple to Leipzig, therefore the official rules in the case of having only one meeple on the way doesn't apply bonuses in the same turn. In subsequent scorings yes, you can claim the bonus.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 06:16:46 AM by DrMeeple »

Online corinthiens13

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Re: Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2021, 06:45:34 AM »
Little rewording of the second example after Dr Meeple's comment.

I think we should just show HiG this picture:


And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to score the road first, then the city and monastery.
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the wainwrights quarter? Do he get any bonus points for the road? (no, obviously)
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the coiners quarter? Do he get any additional points for the city pennant?
  • What happens if yellow sends his meeple to the bookbinders quarter? Do he get any bonus points for the closed monastery?

As well as this picture:


And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to send one meeple to the wainwright quarter, red doesn't. So one red and one yellow meeples are left on the road. Which is true:
  • Yellow is the only one who scores the road, as he had the majority before sending a meeple to Leipzig? If so, red doesn't score any points, yellow gets 9 points for the road, and 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.
  • The majority is reevaluated. Since both red and yellow have only one meeple on the road, they both get 9 points for the road, and yellow gets an additional 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.

I think those questions would solve every possible misinterpretations  ;)

PS: Dr Meeple, I know we do already have some interpretations we all agree on for some of those questions (mainly the second example), but a firm answer from HiG to confirm them would be welcome, to be sure we do not misinterpret anything.

Offline DrMeeple

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Revisiting The Markets of Leipzig
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2021, 07:13:51 AM »
And ask:
It is yellow's turn, who placed the last of his city tile and decides to send one meeple to the wainwright quarter, red doesn't. So one red and one yellow meeples are left on the road. Which is true:
  • Yellow is the only one who scores the road, as he had the majority before sending a meeple to Leipzig? If so, red doesn't score any points, yellow gets 9 points for the road, and 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.
  • The majority is reevaluated. Since both red and yellow have only one meeple on the road, they both get 9 points for the road, and yellow gets an additional 9 points for the wainwright quarter bonus.





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« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 07:15:47 AM by DrMeeple »


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