Author Topic: Castle scoring with mayors  (Read 1042 times)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2020, 01:10:14 PM »
Aaw, questions 13 and 14 are marking the end of my correct answers streak...  :'(
Maybe the beginning of my wrong answers streak?  >:D

13: I did only explore the first scenario, the second seemed to unlogical to me, as yellow would never allow it  :o ???

14: I thought the second castle would get the same number of points than the first (without fairy of course), 0 points.
Here's a correction I have to make to the French order of play  ;)
Meepledrone castle scoring for red player has no sense...


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It has. Because check following sconario:
1. Finished road fire finish castle with Yellow meeple
2. Finished castle with Yellow meeple fire finish castle with Red meeple
right?
It would make sense if the feature was shared by both of you. Otherwise you contradict the basic rules itself.


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Question 14 is similar to this example: How many points does each player score?

I just replaced the castle for a city... I don't think Red scores 0 points because of the mayor.  ;)


@Meepledrone this means that feature is completed, all possible bonuses (vineyard, german castle, etc) or reducers (witch) are computed and then is firing for castle lords, doesn't matter if feature shores any other player (has there meeple) or it's free (including Mayor in city without tennant or Mayor on castle). Which means that also figures bonuses like Fairy / Ringmaster bonus are not consider for castle score, right?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2020, 01:11:33 PM »


 ;D



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Ha ha ha!

I'm going to split this discussion to s separate thread...
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2020, 01:23:50 PM »
Mmmmm I have no problems with mayors on castles... For me the contradiction begins with the sentence castle adyacent and the interpretations about it hahaha


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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2020, 01:42:43 PM »
Aaw, questions 13 and 14 are marking the end of my correct answers streak...  :'(
Maybe the beginning of my wrong answers streak?  >:D

13: I did only explore the first scenario, the second seemed to unlogical to me, as yellow would never allow it  :o ???

14: I thought the second castle would get the same number of points than the first (without fairy of course), 0 points.
Here's a correction I have to make to the French order of play  ;)
Meepledrone castle scoring for red player has no sense...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It has. Because check following sconario:
1. Finished road fire finish castle with Yellow meeple
2. Finished castle with Yellow meeple fire finish castle with Red meeple
right?
It would make sense if the feature was shared by both of you. Otherwise you contradict the basic rules itself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Question 14 is similar to this example: How many points does each player score?

I just replaced the castle for a city... I don't think Red scores 0 points because of the mayor.  ;)


@Meepledrone this means that feature is completed, all possible bonuses (vineyard, german castle, etc) or reducers (witch) are computed and then is firing for castle lords, doesn't matter if feature shores any other player (has there meeple) or it's free (including Mayor in city without tennant or Mayor on castle). Which means that also figures bonuses like Fairy / Ringmaster bonus are not consider for castle score, right?

When you score a feature, some points come from:
* The feature tiles: points per tile/coat of arms plus modifiers (inns, cathedrals, German cathedrals,...) followed by Mage/Witch
* Bonuses to the feature: German castles, Little Buildings, Bathhouses, Vineyards, Darmstadtium, Labyrinth bonus...
All these points associated to the feature tiles plus bonuses to the feature are the ones a castle can receive, no matter who occupies the feature as you mentioned (it can be even empty).

Check here for a feature list and their modifiers (PnP expansions are not included yet):
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2

As you said, there are other bonuses triggered by the scoring of a feature but associated to tokens or figures. These bonuses but don't trigger the scoring of a castle (castles can't see these points):
* Tokens: toolhouse bonus
* Figures: Watchtower bonus, Fairy scoring bonus, Ringmaster bonus, Teacher bonus, Markets of Leipzig

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2020, 02:09:54 PM »
Mmmmm I have no problems with mayors on castles... For me the contradiction begins with the sentence castle adyacent and the interpretations about it hahaha


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For a castle, adjacent means on one of the two tiles on which the castle itself stand, the two to its left, or the two to its right: a total of six tile.

So a castle is adjacent to another if it overlaps the fief of the latter. So the scoring of the former castle will trigger the scoring of the latter.

Two castles can be mutually adjacent like in my previous example. In this case both castles score the same points in normal conditions (no mayors involved). Both castles are entitled to the same points but the ones with mayors won't be able to score them.

So when scoring adjacent castles, my point is that you will have to address dependencies first and score only those not occupied by mayors. In general terms:
1. Resolve dependencies between castles
2. Determine the scoring for each completed feature (and other bonuses not affecting castles)
3. Determine the points each castle is entitled to according to the features triggering them
4. Score points (mayors in castles will not receive points for features)

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2021, 12:57:34 AM »
'For a castle, adjacent means on one of the two tiles on which the castle itself stand, the two to its left, or the two to its right: a total of six tile.'

Why do you make this conclusion? Any example of HiG? The sentence of the official rules could be some more easy and clear interpretation.
If you understand this about 'adjacent' the contradiction begins...

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital


Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2021, 01:02:52 AM »
'So a castle is adjacent to another if it overlaps the fief of the latter. So the scoring of the former castle will trigger the scoring of the latter.'
This is your conclusion based on one sentence of the rules right?
Very dangerous... If you think adjacent is the same of overlap... The contradiction grows up...


Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2021, 02:33:35 AM »
'For a castle, adjacent means on one of the two tiles on which the castle itself stand, the two to its left, or the two to its right: a total of six tile.'

Why do you make this conclusion? Any example of HiG? The sentence of the official rules could be some more easy and clear interpretation.
If you understand this about 'adjacent' the contradiction begins...

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

I'm quoting the Glossary of the CAR v7.4, page 282. (The Glossary on WICA is not finished yet. :'() If you look up "adjacent," this is the sentence addressing castles. Note: In C2 the rules use "neighboring" instead of "adjacent" (Why trying to be consistent?)

This sentence is just describing the fief of a castle. So any feature in those 6 spaces is adjacent to the castle. Since castles sit between two tiles, a castle adjacent to another one has to overlap any of the tiles in those 6 spaces.



In the following clarification, you can see an example of castle adjacency:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-19



You can see here that the castles occupied by Red and Yellow overlap each other fiefs (they are are mutually adjacent). Whatever feature triggers the scoring of one of them would trigger the scoring of the other. They would be receiving the same points, to be scored by the castle lord if possible (I'm referring to mayors).

However, the castle occupied by Blue is only adjacent to the one occupied by Red but not vice versa. The castle occupied by Blue can trigger the scoring of the castle occupied by Red, but not the other way round.



Getting back to our issue, how would you score this case where both castles are mutually adjacent? If I understood you correctly, you say the players should be scoring the same points as the other castle lord, as you discussed regarding Question #14 of the Advent Quiz. This would be deciding the points to score at figure level, not at feature level. If so, we would enter an endless loop (Quantum scoring?  ;)):
* Red should score 4 points for the city
* Yellow should be scoring 0 points for the city.
* However, since both castles are adjacent, both occupiers should be scoring the same points as the other castle lord, so Red should be also scoring 0 points...
* But, Red should score 4 points for the city
* ...  :o



So, my point is that both castles receive the 4 points for the city, that is, the points are decided at feature level. All the castles are entitled to score the same points, but then their castle lords score those points according to their possibilities. So Red scores 4 points and Yellow scores 0 points for their castles.

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2021, 09:01:24 AM »
The Eyeeple wants to put the tile to close the city but it wants to put a castle for Snakeeple... How much they score?
This is an example for me to literally ‘next to’ castle to apply what the HiG official sentence says...


Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2021, 09:43:36 AM »
As you can see, all the castles are literally next to each other.


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2021, 11:33:53 AM »
Ha ha ha!

You have there castle-only urban plan!

In this case, all these castles score the same points, except the one with the Snakeeple that was just built. They all score 2 points for the unoccupied road completed by the tile just placed. Besides, the road overlaps all the castle fiefs:

- Snakeeple scores no points (castle just built, so cannot score right away)
- Spidereeple scores 2 points
- Brown Cowboy Meeple scores 2 points
- Skeleton Meeple scores 2 points
- Red Meeple scores 2 points

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2021, 11:51:15 AM »
Ha ha ha!

You have there castle-only urban plan!

In this case, all these castles score the same points, except the one with the Snakeeple that was just built. They all score 2 points for the unoccupied road completed by the tile just placed. Besides, the road overlaps all the castle fiefs:

- Snakeeple scores no points (castle just built, so cannot score right away)
- Spidereeple scores 2 points
- Brown Cowboy Meeple scores 2 points
- Skeleton Meeple scores 2 points
- Red Meeple scores 2 points

Some characters haven’t been presented properly yet...  :o

-Indiana Meeple Jones: Hello Meepledrone my name is Indiana Meeple Jones and I like adventure and discovering relics still hidden ... much older than C1 land..
-Skeletoneeple: Hello Meepledrone my name is Skeletoneeple and I like to scare Fairy specially... My mother is the Witch.
-The Indian Princess: Hello Meepledrone my name is The Indian Princess and I come from a place far away from the carcassonne series around the world that you haven’t yet visited.

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2021, 12:32:07 PM »
Ha ha ha!

You have there castle-only urban plan!

In this case, all these castles score the same points, except the one with the Snakeeple that was just built. They all score 2 points for the unoccupied road completed by the tile just placed. Besides, the road overlaps all the castle fiefs:

- Snakeeple scores no points (castle just built, so cannot score right away)
- Spidereeple scores 2 points
- Brown Cowboy Meeple scores 2 points
- Skeleton Meeple scores 2 points
- Red Meeple scores 2 points

Exactly Meepledrone, in this example there isn’t doubt for the interpretation of the famous official sentence.

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2021, 03:35:16 AM »
Next level...
The Eyeeple closes the road of Ghosty ...
Who would score in this situation?
Which castles are literally next to each other and which are not?

I would like to know different points of view  :yellow-meeple:

« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 03:40:30 AM by DrMeeple »

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Castle scoring with mayors
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2021, 04:48:02 AM »
If none of these very nice and colourful meeples fulfills a mayor role, than all castle owners score 4 points.

Red Meeple and Snakeeple score 4 points for the road which is the first closed feature in their respective fiefs.
Brown Cowboy Meeple and Skeleton Meeple score 4 points for the other two castles which are the first completed features in their respective fiefs.

So, I really don't understand what the fuss is all about or what we are trying to prove with this topic.
The rules are clear. A castle score the same number of points as the first feature(s) that is/are scored in its fief.
The discussion about adjacent or not is not even relevant...


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