Author Topic: Clarification of rules (abbot, Spiel tiles, peasant revolts) - with HiG - 24 11 2020  (Read 1161 times)

Offline Carcassonne93

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Can you protect your unprotected wagon if you move it on other feature?

As per the partial clarifications I got, it seems so.

That means that you can protect a meeple possessed by you (not phantom) in 2B-1 (4 points or 2 points), your phantom in 2B-2 (4 points), your unprotected wagon if you move it on other feature (city, road, monastery, German cathedral, German castle etc.) in 3B (4 points) and (all players) your just placed meeple during 4A (4 points)?

Offline Carcassonne93

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An unprotected wagon can be protected if it is moved on a feature that is not a city, road or monastic building during 3B?

Offline Meepledrone

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As per Andreas's response, the wagon can keep its protected status until it returns back to its owner's supply, no matter the features it may be placed on. Taking in consideration all his comments about other placement methods, that would mean the following:
* You can move the wagon to features not affected by peasant revolts while keeping its protection (Step 3B, when moved).
* You should be able to protect a wagon when placed on any feature, in preparation for any future movement of the wagon (Step 2B-1, when already placed or when just placed)

However, protecting a wagon in Step 3B before being moved was not discussed in depth, the same as other actions came into the discussion, as you can see from his answer. He forwarded the questions to Christof Tisch but I don't have any feedback yet.

The meeple protection actions belong naturally in 2. Placing a meeple for the active player. Allowing players to apply the protection to any placement / movement / exchange happening in other phases seems awkward, especially when it would benefit players other than the active one:
* 1. Placing a tile : the meeple swap with La Porxada may affect the current player and another one.
* 3. Scoring a feature: moving a wagon may affect players other than the active one
* 4. Additional actions: the meeple swap granted by the Seduction token and the meeple placement granted by Crop Circles may affect players other than the active one.

As indicated above, it wasn't discussed in depth so I would wait for a conclusion to this topic. Not all the implications were taken into consideration and therefore the answer.

In any case, I would say no, since you should be the active player to perform any of these actions in the right moment of your turn. From a gameplay point of view, it seems also more interesting: players may have to face extraordinary meeple placements that would require the protection actions. So there is a trade-off there and certain periods of uncertainty for those meeples.

EDIT: Added final conclusion
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 06:13:50 AM by Meepledrone »
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Offline Carcassonne93

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However, protecting a wagon in Step 3B before being moved was not discussed in depth, the same as other actions came into the discussion, as you can see from his answer. He forwarded the questions to Christof Tisch but I don't have any feedback yet.
Not all the implications were taken into consideration and therefore the answer.

That means that per moment (temporary, until complete answers), the players should ignore these clarifications?

Offline Meepledrone

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I'm keeping the last part of the clarifications quarantined for the time being...

The comments about protecting meeples in any special placement, if they weren't already, seems a bit odd to me. Allowing all the players to protect their meeples while placing them via a crop circle, when moving an unprotected wagon or when swapping meeples, feels like cutting corners to me for the active player and especially for other players.

For example, in the case of the wagon, you delay your decision to protect your wagon but you don't have to sacrifice a meeple placement (or figure/token placement) during tour turn to get your wagon protected as it would be required for another meeple. You of course have to pay, but 4 points for placing your wagon on a new feature or 2 points because it was already placed? If you allow other players to do the same, you are making everyone's life easier, since everybody can do more without sacrificing the required actions in 2. Placing a meeple.

So I still see some open issues here that need clarification after some pondering.

Do you think I'm being too purist here?

Offline corinthiens13

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I'm keeping the last part of the clarifications quarantined for the time being...

The comments about protecting meeples in any special placement, if they weren't already, seems a bit odd to me. Allowing all the players to protect their meeples while placing them via a crop circle, when moving an unprotected wagon or when swapping meeples, feels like cutting corners to me for the active player and especially for other players.

For example, in the case of the wagon, you delay your decision to protect your wagon but you don't have to sacrifice a meeple placement (or figure/token placement) during tour turn to get your wagon protected as it would be required for another meeple. You of course have to pay, but 4 points for placing your wagon on a new feature or 2 points because it was already placed? If you allow other players to do the same, you are making everyone's life easier, since everybody can do more without sacrificing the required actions in 2. Placing a meeple.

So I still see some open issues here that need clarification after some pondering.

Do you think I'm being too purist here?

I aggree with you.

As long as we do not get clarifications from HiG, I'd apply:
  • You can protect a meeple on a feature affected by peasant revolt for 2 points insted of placing a meeple in step 2b1 only
  • You can protect the meeple that has just been placed on a feature affected by peasant revolt in step 2 (b1 or b2) only, for 4 points
  • A protected meeple remain protected as long as it doesn't go back to a player supply
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Offline Vital Pluymers

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I'm keeping the last part of the clarifications quarantined for the time being...

The comments about protecting meeples in any special placement, if they weren't already, seems a bit odd to me. Allowing all the players to protect their meeples while placing them via a crop circle, when moving an unprotected wagon or when swapping meeples, feels like cutting corners to me for the active player and especially for other players.

For example, in the case of the wagon, you delay your decision to protect your wagon but you don't have to sacrifice a meeple placement (or figure/token placement) during tour turn to get your wagon protected as it would be required for another meeple. You of course have to pay, but 4 points for placing your wagon on a new feature or 2 points because it was already placed? If you allow other players to do the same, you are making everyone's life easier, since everybody can do more without sacrificing the required actions in 2. Placing a meeple.

So I still see some open issues here that need clarification after some pondering.

Do you think I'm being too purist here?

I aggree with you.

As long as we do not get clarifications from HiG, I'd apply:
  • You can protect a meeple on a feature affected by peasant revolt for 2 points insted of placing a meeple in step 2b1 only
  • You can protect the meeple that has just been placed on a feature affected by peasant revolt in step 2 (b1 or b2) only, for 4 points
  • A protected meeple remain protected as long as it doesn't go back to a player supply

I agree as well
Just intuitively this seems to be the only right conclusion with the info we have.

Offline DrMeeple

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Removing the abbot



[Q3] Red just placed a tile that completes a garden with his abbot.
Can Red remove the abbot and score it in 2. Placing a meeple in this case before the garden is scored?
The rules don't include any restrictions about this case.


Note: This would be an interesting option, for example, if the tile just placed is a dragon tile, so the dragon is about to move and probably eat the abbot.



[A3] Red can only score the abbot before the monastery (or garden) is completely surrounded by tiles (after placing a tile and after he may decide to quit placing a meeple in 2. Placing a meeple). You always score the abbot (on the feature) never the feature itself.

So, you can only score the abbot on a garden or a monastery during 2. Placing a meeple if the feature is incomplete (that is, when it is not completely surrounded by tiles at that point).

Once the monastery or garden is completed, you cannot score your abbot. So you can only score the feature it is placed on in  3. Scoring a feature. This means, the Red abbot will not be able to escape the dragon by being scored (see second image on this post above).

I was reviewing and reading this just say that if you have played on the HiG approved digital asmodee platform to carcassonne with the abbot you can rate a garden automatically when it is surrounded by 8 tiles like a monastery. If someone has a carcassonne account in asmodee digital and is interested in playing with the P&D and the abbot who sends me a PM because I have it, so you can see the order and how HiG has determined it for the digital platform. I haven’t played on the asmodee platform with both expansions at the same time ... I understand that HiG applies the official rules I don’t think they change the rules from physical to digital ...


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« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 11:02:55 AM by DrMeeple »
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Offline DrMeeple

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I'm keeping the last part of the clarifications quarantined for the time being...

The comments about protecting meeples in any special placement, if they weren't already, seems a bit odd to me. Allowing all the players to protect their meeples while placing them via a crop circle, when moving an unprotected wagon or when swapping meeples, feels like cutting corners to me for the active player and especially for other players.

For example, in the case of the wagon, you delay your decision to protect your wagon but you don't have to sacrifice a meeple placement (or figure/token placement) during tour turn to get your wagon protected as it would be required for another meeple. You of course have to pay, but 4 points for placing your wagon on a new feature or 2 points because it was already placed? If you allow other players to do the same, you are making everyone's life easier, since everybody can do more without sacrificing the required actions in 2. Placing a meeple.

So I still see some open issues here that need clarification after some pondering.

Do you think I'm being too purist here?
Makes sense. Surely much better than possible future HiG clarifications (if they answer anything)


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