Author Topic: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020  (Read 920 times)

Online Meepledrone

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Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« on: December 10, 2020, 12:42:07 PM »
Hi all,

I had a brief exchange with Andreas Kramer of HiG about some rules questions. I started a dialog about Peasant Revolts and some other issues but it was interrupted due to the Advent Sale 2020. I will summarize the answers I got so far.

Following Kettlefish's tradition...

Question in BLUE

Answer in GREEN

Still open in RED

My own comments in  MAROON

Cheers!

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.0
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 12:46:01 PM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2020, 12:56:40 PM »
Spiel'16 promo tile



[Q1.] Is the green patch in the middle of this tile a field?

[A1.] The green patch of the Spiel’16 tile was meant as a decoration.

This means the green patch wasn't meant to be a proper field where you could place a farmer or a shepherd.

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2020, 01:01:40 PM »
Spiel'19 promo tile



[Q2.] Does the bridge connect the two city segments on this tile?

[A2.] The bridge connect the two city segments to one city.

The tile behaves like a regular CCCF such as this one:


Offline Drodo

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2020, 01:17:15 PM »
Ha! I knew it. Now I don't feel bad for not having any of the 2014-2019 Spiel tiles, none of them are unique or special. Only the 2020 one is.

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2020, 01:37:07 PM »
Removing the abbot



[Q3] Red just placed a tile that completes a garden with his abbot.
Can Red remove the abbot and score it in 2. Placing a meeple in this case before the garden is scored?
The rules don't include any restrictions about this case.


Note: This would be an interesting option, for example, if the tile just placed is a dragon tile, so the dragon is about to move and probably eat the abbot.



[A3] Red can only score the abbot before the monastery (or garden) is completely surrounded by tiles (after placing a tile and after he may decide to quit placing a meeple in 2. Placing a meeple). You always score the abbot (on the feature) never the feature itself.

So, you can only score the abbot on a garden or a monastery during 2. Placing a meeple if the feature is incomplete (that is, when it is not completely surrounded by tiles at that point).

Once the monastery or garden is completed, you cannot score your abbot. So you can only score the feature it is placed on in  3. Scoring a feature. This means, the Red abbot will not be able to escape the dragon by being scored (see second image on this post above).

« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 01:48:23 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2020, 01:42:48 PM »
Depends how many player play game. When two you can escape :)

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku


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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2020, 01:49:38 PM »
OK. I updated the wording to indicate the abbot cannot be scored to escape the dragon...  ;)

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2020, 03:40:54 PM »
The Peasant Revolts

[Q4.1] When does a meeple lose its protection against peasant revolts?
a) When the feature is scored (the meeple is still on the board)
b) When the meeple is placed in the player's supply

The German rules say: "Ein geschützer Meeple zählt bei der Wertung eines Gebietes wie ein ganz normaler Meeple. Du holst ihn nach der Wertung wie üblich in den Vorrat zurück. Dabei verliert dieser Meeple seinen Schutz vor Aufständen.
Wenn du ihn erneut einsetzt, ist er also dann wieder ungeschützt."

The English rules say: "When scoring a feature, a protected meeple is treated like a normal meeple. It is returned into your supply after the feature has been scored. After that, it loses its protection from peasant revolts.
This means that if you place that meeple again, it is unprotected once again."


[A4.1] A meeple loses its protection in the moment when you take the meeple back in your supply.



[Q4.2] So, should we consider a protected wagon still protected if moved to another feature after scoring?

[A4.2] I think in that special case of the wagon you can consider, yes, that the wagon keeps the protection after moving.



[Q4.3] I assume in this case that you should keep the wagon's protection until it returns to the player's supply. Even it is placed on features that can't be affected by a peasant's revolt.
Is this correct?


[A4.3] Yes, you can do so. The rules are always be made for the base game. We haven't given any thought to all of the (mini)-expansions and the special cases yet.



[Q4.4] Additionally, I would assume you can also protect meeples placed during your turn for 4 points too:
* Exp. 7 - The Catapult: when exchanging a meeple with a Seduction Token (the protected meeples keep their protection when swapped).
* Mini #7 - Crop Circles: when placing a meeple with a crop circle
* The Phantom: when placing a phantom
* La Porxada: when  exchanging a meeple with La Porxada
Is this correct?


[A4.4] I think you can do so. There is nothing in my mind what would say no.

There are some dark corners I would like to explore in more detail, since the rules have been not tested past the base game.

For the time being we can do the following:
* Maintain the protection for a wagon being moved, even if it is placed on a feature not affected by peasant revolts. The protected state would be maintained until the wagon returns to its owner's supply.
* Protect any meeple being placed on a feature affected by a peasant revolts. This would cover wooden meeples and phantoms placed...
   - directly
   - with a flying machine
   - with a magic portal
   - with a crop circle
   - during a meeple exchange due to a Seduction token
   - during a meeple exchange granted by La Porxada

I skipped asking about deploying meeples from the city of Carcassonne, since they will be scored automatically.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 04:30:15 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2020, 04:53:20 PM »
Tanners quarter during the game, wagon movement after (when placed in castle) and ringmaster bonus (when placed in castle)?

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2020, 05:22:04 PM »
They are part of my 40+ list of questions (don't tell anybody :o), excluding those that may involve interactions between mini-expansions that may never have an answer... I even prepared images for each question. I'll review the list again to keep it as simple as possible.

So I just tested the water with 4 of them,... and the Peasant Revolts got complicated, so they forwarded me to a new person who never replied... Actually, I'm still waiting for a reply to a few questions I sent them back in December 2019  >:D

I'll try again... Looking for the right moment that may suit them...  :'(

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2020, 01:17:17 AM »
Can you protect your unprotected wagon if you move it on other feature?

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2020, 01:56:01 AM »
How can you prove that this clarifications are official? Also, if these are official, some clarifications should be added at https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Carcassonne_Order_of_Play (you can protect a meeple placed by you with a crop circle etc.) https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Peasant_Revolts etc.

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2020, 02:49:33 AM »
Can you protect your unprotected wagon if you move it on other feature?

As per the partial clarifications I got, it seems so.

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2020, 03:00:27 AM »
How can you prove that this clarifications are official? Also, if these are official, some clarifications should be added at https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Carcassonne_Order_of_Play (you can protect a meeple placed by you with a crop circle etc.) https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Peasant_Revolts etc.

I can share with you the full exchange of emails. I have quarantined some parts (especially those were Andreas was more hesitant) and haven't incorporated them to WICA yet. Since Andreas was pressed by time because of the Advent Sale, he sent the questions to Christof Tisch, the person who creates the rulebooks, for confirmation. So I'm waiting for Christof's answer.

In the meantime, I sent them both another small batch of questions, but I'm still waiting for their answer to them too.

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Re: Clarification of rules - with HiG 24 11 2020
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2020, 03:58:29 AM »
During step 4A, all players can protect their just placed meeple or only the active player?


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