Author Topic: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions  (Read 1204 times)

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2020, 02:28:23 AM »
I agree it may be an overkill, but the wording may lead you think you can protect other meeples instead of placing your phantom.

In the Order of Play you won't include the option, but out of context I think it is okay to include this clarification.

Remember the wording included in the rules:

Quote
Each time you do not to place a meeple on the tile you just have placed, you may protect one of your meeples standing on tiles for the cost of 2 points.

If you apply it literally, you would assume this applies to Steps 2B-1 and 2B-2. Did this happen to anyone here recently in the heat of the moment?  :o

Not me   ;D

I think we should stick to the idea of intended use.

Quote
Each time you do not to place a meeple on the tile you just have placed, you may protect one of your meeples standing on tiles for the cost of 2 points.

If we would interpret this literally, then it could even apply that we can protect a meeple in all cases we do another Move the Wood action than placing a meeple. If I place a tower piece somewhere on the playing field, I am not placing a meeple on the tile I just played. If I move the fairy next to one of my meeples, I am not placing a meeple on the tile I just placed. If I .... There are plenty of examples we could add.
But I am convinced that this interpretation is not the original intented use that the creators had in mind when they wrote the rules.

I think the original intention was just to create another Move the Wood action, just like the other ones we already know. Let's not make it too difficult.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2020, 04:10:50 AM »
Yep... I agree: The protecting of other meeples is thought of as a possible action in Step 2B-1 for 2 points.

Some spots during your a turn are out of the intended scope:
* Step 2B-2: Instead of placing a phantom
* Step 3B: Instead of deploying a meeple from the city of Carcassonne
* Step 3B: Instead of moving a wagon



(Going back to protecting meeples during placement...)

Placing a meeple on a feature (road, city, monastery) by any means should allow you to protect it for 4 points:
* Step 2B-1: placing a meeple by any means
* Step 2B-2: placing a phantom by any means

Then we have some special cases eligible for protection for 4 points for the sake of consistency:
* Step 1C: exchanging a meeple with La Porxada
* Step 3B: moving a wagon (does the meeple maintain its protection state when moved?)
* Step 4A: exchanging a meeple with a Seduction Token.
* Step 4A: placing a meeple with a crop circle

Any thoughts?
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2020, 04:18:43 AM »
Quote
Each time you do not to place a meeple on the tile you just have placed, you may protect one of your meeples standing on tiles for the cost of 2 points.

Hmm, I didn't realize that. Now I understand your first wording for Phase 2B-2. In this case maybe it has to be able to protect meeple if none meeple was changed to protected in Phase 2B-1.

Wording can be: When you didn't place your phantom from your supply, you can protect any meeple if you don't do this in Phase 2B-1 Place Wood. (something with nicer english ;-D)


What do you think?

PS: German wording in rules mentioned in quote is similar?

You see the dilemma here!!!  >:D

The German wording is as follows:
Quote
Immer wenn du keinen Meeple auf dein angelegtes Plättchen einsetzt, darfst du genau 1 deiner schon eingesetzten Meeple für 2 Punkte schützen.

Translated into English:
Quote
Whenever you don't use a meeple on the tile you have placed, you may use exactly 1 of your already-placed meeples for 2 points.

Online Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2020, 05:13:20 AM »
Quote
Each time you do not to place a meeple on the tile you just have placed, you may protect one of your meeples standing on tiles for the cost of 2 points.
You see the dilemma here!!!  >:D

Well, here is also one "trap".

Quote
Each time you do not to place a meeple on the tile you just have placed...

So here can be sollution of our problem:
Each time - it mean every possibility of place meeple. It means also "not place" phantom.

So I think in phantom phase it HAS to be allowed to protect any meeple on board with costs 2 points if you not place your meeple from supply.

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2020, 05:24:46 AM »
I was checking Festival and it's rules are different.
Anyway, maybe that knew that in Advent Package will be phantom, textation includes this.
Or that "Every time" means that on any turn when you not place wood. But rules are our law, so we have to manage it.
Anyway, most similar functionality for this is moving/place toll keeper.
But rules for Tollkeepers use different wording:
Quote
If you don't place a meeple, you are allowed to place your tollhouse showing 1 (small toll). If your tollhouse is already in the game, you are allowed to relocate it. The rules for this procedure are as follows
So for this reason I'm for ability to protect any meeple on board when you have phantom in supply and not place him on board.

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2020, 07:16:15 AM »
Once again, I think we should stick to the intended use of this expansion. We should not try to invent unintended consequences because the wording is a little different than with other expansions. is there anyone on this forum who truely believes that the creators used a different phrasing because they wanted to have an exception for the phantom power?

And like I wrote before, if we take the phrasing literally, both in German or in English, a player would be able to protect a formerly placed meeple also when he builds a tower piece, when he places a little building, when he relocates the fairy, when he puts a meeple on the Wheel of Fortune, when he uses the Festival's special power, etc. In neither of these cases, the player is placing a meeple on the just placed tile.

I am really convinced that the creators only meant it as another Step 2B-1 action, nothing more, nothing less.

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2020, 07:31:43 AM »

Then we have some special cases eligible for protection for 4 points for the sake of consistency:
* Step 1C: exchanging a meeple with La Porxada
* Step 3B: moving a wagon (does the meeple maintain its protection state when moved?)
* Step 4A: exchanging a meeple with a Seduction Token.
* Step 4A: placing a meeple with a crop circle

Any thoughts?

These are indeed very interesting questions. In the current rules we don't have any indication of what would be the intention of the creators. They probably didn't even consider it.

Additionally, I cannot think of any similar cases in which meeples have a certain status.

So, there are two options:
1. We ask an official statement from HiG, but we know that they will probably not react.
2. Before the start of the game, the players decide on one of the two options: protected status is transferred to the new situation vs protected status is lost in the new situation. I haven't found yet any indication why one option should be preferable to the other. But the best thing to do is to be consequent in all cases and choose just one option for all the mentioned special cases.

Online Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2020, 11:06:41 AM »
Before it I will told you what I doscovered today:
Quote
Each time you do not to place a meeple on the tile you just have placed, [3] you may protect one of your meeples standing on tiles for the cost of 2 points.

Imagine.
I place a tile.
I will not place meeple on tile but I enlarge tower.
By this wording of rules, I'm still able to protect any meeple, becase I didn't place a meeple on the tile I just have placed.

Also send option:
I place a tile with magic portal - ok I'll stop here, because I place meeple on magic portal which beamed my meeple somewhere else. This is simmilar to flying machine.

Another:
I place a tile.
I place a meeple to existing tower on top
By rules amd also able to protect meeples because I don't place meeple on placed tile.

And another, not last:
I move tollkeeper or place tollkeeper.
I'm able to protect meeple again?

Or?

Meybe we have to discover also those possibilities by this rules :D

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Re: The Peasant Revolts interactions with other expansions
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2020, 09:22:33 AM »
Well? What do you think?


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