Author Topic: La Porxada  (Read 352 times)

Online Bumsakalaka

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La Porxada
« on: October 31, 2020, 01:47:14 AM »
La Porxada final scoring page on WiCa says:

Suggestion for WiCa: Rename page "Scoring After the Game" to "Final Scoring of Game", because in a all rules there is Final scoring and not After game scoring phase. Just for make it clear.

Does final scoring of city by La Porxada fire Castle / Teacher / Robber / Message when is scored as Complete?


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4858.0

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2020, 05:45:18 AM »
La Porxada final scoring page on WiCa says:

Suggestion for WiCa: Rename page "Scoring After the Game" to "Final Scoring of Game", because in a all rules there is Final scoring and not After game scoring phase. Just for make it clear.

WICA uses "Scoring After the Game" to honor the CAR, since it also uses "Scoring During the Game" and "Scoring After the Game". I know what you mean... So many conventions...  ;)

Does final scoring of city by La Porxada fire Castle / Teacher / Robber / Message when is scored as Complete?

There is no explicit ruling about this, but the bonus provided by La Porxada allows all players who were present in the city with La Porxada when completed to score their incomplete cities as if completed during the game. So the city is still incomplete to all effects but you score it as if completed as an exception.

So, you should score the city as in a bubble (you consider it completed for all its occupiers for scoring purposes) but no one else would notice.

This would affect the number of points per tile and coat of arms, cathedrals, and other bonuses applied during the game to the city itself. We face two cases here:

* Points and scoring modifiers applicable during the game and after the game but may differ: In this case, you apply them as if during the game:
  - Basic points for city tiles and coats of arms: 2 points per tile, 2 points per coat of arms (applied as if during the game)
  - Cathedral: +1 point per tile, +1 point per coat of arms (applied as if during the game)
  - Cathars / Siege / Besiegers: -1 point per tile, - 1 point per coat of arms (no change)
  - Mage: +1 point per tile (no change)
  - Witch: 1/2 points before applying other feature-level bonuses (no change)
  - Little Buildings: +1 point (basic rules) or +1/2/3 points (variant rules) per little building
  - Ringmaster: 2 points per neighboring acrobat space and circus space (no change)
  - Fairy: +3 points (no change)
 
* Scoring modifiers and bonuses applied during the game only:
  - Gingerbread Man: 1 point per tile for each meeple the player has in the city. The Gingerbread Man shouldn't move form the city in order to avoid any chain reaction (applied as if during the game but without side effects). 
  - Watchtowers: Points according to watchtower (applied as if during the game)
  - The Land Surveyors: The scoring tiles are not considered after the game. It may be agreed to apply the active scoring tile for cities after the last scoring during the game. This means that scoring tiles should be left as is when the game ends but they are not taken into consideration during final scoring, unless when scoring the La Porxada bonus for any incomplete city.
   - German castle: +3 points (applied as if during the game)
   - Bathhouse: +bathhouse points (applied as if during the game), but sending meeples to a free bathhouse makes no sense at this point of the game. It should have any effect.
   - Darmstadtium: +3 points (applied as if during the game)
   - Markets of Leipzig (Coiners quarter): +3 points per coat of arms. This bonus is not applied after the game but this may be an exception. The meeples in the city Leipzig should not be removed until the end of the final scoring, not only for the Tanners quarter bonus affecting fields in this case.

What happens to other scorings and bonuses triggered by the scoring of a completed feature? We would need some extra considerations here since we are performing the scoring one the game is finished and there is no turning back, so to speak:
* Teacher: Does not apply during final scoring since no actual features were completed by a tile placement and no specific order for scoring features, so it should be ignored even if the player with the teacher is scoring a city affected by La Porxada bonus (See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition)#cite_note-5)
* Castles: They are not considered during final scoring except for fields and barns. Their occupiers are removed before final scoring, so no castle score can be triggered. In any case, no actual city is being scored so no castle could receive any points.
* Robbers: Do not apply after the game. They are removed before the final scoring starts
* Messages: Do not apply after the game. There is no active player during final scoring so no player may receive messages.

So in the end, we should apply the bubble principle to the scoring of those incomplete cities belonging to players with La Porxada bonus. For the sake of consistency, no side effects could be triggered by the tweaked scoring of these "fortunate" cities.

EDIT: Corrected typos.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 08:25:12 AM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2020, 10:58:44 AM »
La Porxada final scoring page on WiCa says:

Suggestion for WiCa: Rename page "Scoring After the Game" to "Final Scoring of Game", because in a all rules there is Final scoring and not After game scoring phase. Just for make it clear.

WICA uses "Scoring After the Game" to honor the CAR, since it also uses "Scoring During the Game" and "Scoring After the Game". I know what you mean... So many conventions...  ;)


Does final scoring of city by La Porxada fire Castle / Teacher / Robber / Message when is scored as Complete?

There is no explicit ruling about this, but the bonus provided by La Porxada allows all players who were present in the city with La Porxada when completed to score their incomplete cities as if completed during the game. So the city is still incomplete to all effects but you score it as if completedas an exception.

So, you should score the city as in a bubble (you consider it completed for all its occupiers for scoring purposed) but no one else would notice.

This would affect the number of points per tile and coat of arms, cathedrals, and other bonuses applied during the game to the city itself. We face two cases here:

* Points and scoring modifiers applicable during the game and after the game but may differ: In this case, you apply them as if during the game:
  - Basic points for city tiles and coats of arms: 2 points per tile, 2 points per coat of arms (applied as if during the game)
  - Cathedral: +1 point per tile, +1 point per coat of arms (applied as if during the game)
  - Cathars / Siege /Besiegers: -1 point per tile, - 1 point per coat of arms (no change)
  - Mage: +1 point per tile (no change)
  - Witch: 1/2 points before applying other feature-level bonuses (no change)
  - Little Buildings: +1 point (basic rules) or +1/2/3 points (variant rules) per little building
  - Ringmaster: 2 points per neighboring acrobat space and circus space (no change)
  - Fairy: +3 points (no change)
 
* Scoring modifiers and bonuses applied during the game only:
  - Gingerbread Man: 1 point per tile for each meeple the player has in the city. The Gingerbread Man shouldn't move form the city in order to avoid any chain reaction (applied as if during the game but without side effects). 
  - Watchtowers: Points according to watchtower (applied as if during the game)
  - The Land Surveyors: The scoring tiles are not considered after the game. It may be agreed to apply the active scoring tile for cities after the last scoring during the game. This means that scoring tiles should be left as is when the game ends but they are not taken into consideration during final scoring, unless when scoring the La Porxada bonus for any incomplete city.
   - German castle: +3 points (applied as if during the game)
   - Bathhouse: +bathhouse points (applied as if during the game), but sending meeples to a free bathhouse makes no sense at this point of the game. It should have any effect.
   - Darmstadtium: +3 points (applied as if during the game)
   - Markets of Leipzig (Coiners quarter): +3 points per coat of arms. This bonus is not applied after the game but this may be an exception. The meeples in the city Leipzig should not be removed until the end of the final scoring, not only for the Tanners quarter bonus affecting fields in this case.

What happens to other scorings and bonuses triggered by the scoring of a completed feature? We would need some extra considerations here since we are performing the scoring one the game is finished and there is no turning back, so to speak:
* Teacher: Does not apply during final scoring since no actual features were completed by a tile placement and no specific order for scoring features, so it should be ignored even if the player with the teacher is scoring a city affected by La Porxada bonus (See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition)#cite_note-5)
* Castles: They are not considered during final scoring except for fields and barns. Their occupiers are removed before final scoring, so no castle score can be triggered. In any case, no actual city is being scored so no castle could receive any points.
* Robbers: Do not apply after the game. They are removed before the final scoring starts
* Messages: Do not apply after the game. There is no active player during final scoring so no player may receive messages.

So in the end, we should apply the bubble principle to the scoring of those incomplete cities belonging to players with La Porxada bonus. For the sake of consistency, no side effects could be triggered by the tweaked scoring of these "fortunate" cities.

First lesson, So before asking I will read the WICA either because everything is there or practically everything hahaha
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 11:00:15 AM by DrMeeple »
'Connected field segments are called farms'  - The Weed Guru

Online Bumsakalaka

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2020, 11:39:42 AM »
First lesson, So before asking I will read the WICA either because everything is there or practically everything hahaha
Don't worry I read it before. As @Meepledrone says - "There is no explicit ruling about this" if it will be, we will put here "citation" url ;-D

Does final scoring of city by La Porxada fire Castle / Teacher / Robber / Message when is scored as Complete?

There is no explicit ruling about this, but the bonus provided by La Porxada allows all players who were present in the city with La Porxada when completed to score their incomplete cities as if completed during the game. So the city is still incomplete to all effects but you score it as if completedas an exception.

So, you should score the city as in a bubble (you consider it completed for all its occupiers for scoring purposed) but no one else would notice.

This would affect the number of points per tile and coat of arms, cathedrals, and other bonuses applied during the game to the city itself. We face two cases here:

* Points and scoring modifiers applicable during the game and after the game but may differ: In this case, you apply them as if during the game:
  - Basic points for city tiles and coats of arms: 2 points per tile, 2 points per coat of arms (applied as if during the game)
  - Cathedral: +1 point per tile, +1 point per coat of arms (applied as if during the game)
  - Cathars / Siege /Besiegers: -1 point per tile, - 1 point per coat of arms (no change)
  - Mage: +1 point per tile (no change)
  - Witch: 1/2 points before applying other feature-level bonuses (no change)
  - Little Buildings: +1 point (basic rules) or +1/2/3 points (variant rules) per little building
  - Ringmaster: 2 points per neighboring acrobat space and circus space (no change)
  - Fairy: +3 points (no change)
 
* Scoring modifiers and bonuses applied during the game only:
  - Gingerbread Man: 1 point per tile for each meeple the player has in the city. The Gingerbread Man shouldn't move form the city in order to avoid any chain reaction (applied as if during the game but without side effects). 
  - Watchtowers: Points according to watchtower (applied as if during the game)
  - The Land Surveyors: The scoring tiles are not considered after the game. It may be agreed to apply the active scoring tile for cities after the last scoring during the game. This means that scoring tiles should be left as is when the game ends but they are not taken into consideration during final scoring, unless when scoring the La Porxada bonus for any incomplete city.
   - German castle: +3 points (applied as if during the game)
   - Bathhouse: +bathhouse points (applied as if during the game), but sending meeples to a free bathhouse makes no sense at this point of the game. It should have any effect.
   - Darmstadtium: +3 points (applied as if during the game)
   - Markets of Leipzig (Coiners quarter): +3 points per coat of arms. This bonus is not applied after the game but this may be an exception. The meeples in the city Leipzig should not be removed until the end of the final scoring, not only for the Tanners quarter bonus affecting fields in this case.

What happens to other scorings and bonuses triggered by the scoring of a completed feature? We would need some extra considerations here since we are performing the scoring one the game is finished and there is no turning back, so to speak:
* Teacher: Does not apply during final scoring since no actual features were completed by a tile placement and no specific order for scoring features, so it should be ignored even if the player with the teacher is scoring a city affected by La Porxada bonus (See: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition)#cite_note-5)
* Castles: They are not considered during final scoring except for fields and barns. Their occupiers are removed before final scoring, so no castle score can be triggered. In any case, no actual city is being scored so no castle could receive any points.
* Robbers: Do not apply after the game. They are removed before the final scoring starts
* Messages: Do not apply after the game. There is no active player during final scoring so no player may receive messages.

So in the end, we should apply the bubble principle to the scoring of those incomplete cities belonging to players with La Porxada bonus. For the sake of consistency, no side effects could be triggered by the tweaked scoring of these "fortunate" cities.

First lesson, So before asking I will read the WICA either because everything is there or practically everything hahaha
[/quote]

Thanks a lot can you add this also to WiCa as Note?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2020, 04:03:27 AM »
Thanks a lot can you add this also to WiCa as Note?

No problem. Your wish is my command...  ;D

I added this section (tried to correct some hateful typos I found after reviewing the original text :o):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/La_Porxada_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions

I assume it will be everyone's favorite section from this moment on (Yawwwwwn!)

Online Bumsakalaka

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2020, 10:00:08 AM »
Thanks a lot can you add this also to WiCa as Note?

No problem. Your wish is my command...  ;D

I added this section (tried to correct some hateful typos I found after reviewing the original text :o):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/La_Porxada_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions

I assume it will be everyone's favorite section from this moment on (Yawwwwwn!)

Yop. I have to start this expansion, because it look very interesting with a lot of undiscovered areas (more than usually by HiG ;-D)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2020, 03:27:49 PM »
Well... This is an unofficial expansion created for an event in 2010. KJW signed some of the the tiles (a simple sticker on a tile) and there's been a lot of fuzz since.

The rules were not very well written so  DrMeeple helped me contact the author through a friend to clarify the rules... Superb!

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: La Porxada
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2020, 09:13:25 AM »
Well... This is an unofficial expansion created for an event in 2010. KJW signed some of the the tiles (a simple sticker on a tile) and there's been a lot of fuzz since.

The rules were not very well written so  DrMeeple helped me contact the author through a friend to clarify the rules... Superb!

You are right. Oriol Comas was the author of the mini expansion because of KWJ’s visit Granollers in Catalonia in a spiel festival and National Carcassone’s tournament. Oriol Comas is a controversial games author. Always he has problems with FAQs on his games, and this isn’t an exception.  O:-)


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