Author Topic: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition  (Read 989 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2021, 03:34:35 PM »
Yep, tiles are always counted once, except German cathedral tiles, where each road segment is counted separately.

So the "tennis ball" tile and the tile with the bridge are counted once.

The same would happen with tiles with wooden bridges on tiles with a road and both taking part in the same road, or tunnels connecting multiple branches of the same road network on the same tile. Check Question #18 for an example showing this:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4911.msg73208#msg73208

Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline wolnic

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2021, 04:44:52 PM »
Many thanks for clarifying.
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Offline DrMeeple

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2021, 02:34:23 AM »
Since I see that the subject of cathedrals is active again, I take the opportunity to say that the rules would have to be revised. Especially interactions with other expansions, leaving aside the use of fallacies of authority (Kettelfish quizes).
One option would be for Kettelfish to really detail what HiG clarified for him and what didn't and if it isn’t possible then to contact HiG directly what they have to say about the cathedrals ...
I would be interested to know what they think about the interaction with the bonuses of the German castles and the little buildings and how they logically justify their use for the Archbishop.
'Connected field segments are called farms'  - The Weed Guru

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2021, 03:27:28 AM »
Example with 3 types of bonuses (inns, little buildings and Castle of Germany). I have added the three types of little buildings (Tower, house and shed) using the variant of 3,2,1 point.
How much would the cathedral score knowing that it isn’t the end of the game?

-Indiana Meeple Jones: I feel the power of all roads over me hahaha

Feel free to comment, although I would appreciate justified and reasoned answers using only the rules of each expansion without nothing more.


Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2021, 03:52:40 AM »
I would score it 24 points:
Cathedral tile with four road segments, two with an inn and two without: 6 pts
2 road tiles: 2 points
5 road tiles with inn: 10 points
3 little buildings of resp. values 1,2 and 3 points.

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2021, 04:05:52 AM »
I would score it 24 points:
Cathedral tile with four road segments, two with an inn and two without: 6 pts
2 road tiles: 2 points
5 road tiles with inn: 10 points
3 little buildings of resp. values 1,2 and 3 points.

Thanks for your contribution! I would lack the justification of why you add certain bonuses and others not, only with the rules of each expansion.  :yellow-meeple:

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2021, 07:44:20 AM »
I came across this thread on CarcF from 4/2016 (again), that includes a reply by Michael Fronia of HiG confirming that Kettlefish's riddles with German Cathedrals and German castles are correct.
* Thread on CarcF:
   https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3237
* Post on CarcF with Michael Fronia's reply:
   https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3237&p=40694#p40906
* Thread on CarcF with Kettlefish's riddles referenced by Michael Fronia:
   https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3222
* Thread on CarcC with the same riddles:
   http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.0

Conclusions:
- German castles are taken into consideration when scoring a road (connected to German cathedrals o not) during the game
- German castles are not considered when scoring a German cathedral for the roads connected to it

Additional comments by Kettlefish included in the thread:
- Scoring a German cathedral has nothing to do with scoring the roads connected to it
- The +3 bonus points [for a German castle] are added to the road being scored when this road is completed in the turn. A German Cathedral is scored [during the game] when all roads starting/ending at its tile are completed. This means that the scoring of the a German cathedral and the last completed road connected to it will happen together, and yet the German cathedral is not a road and certainly not a city.

Note that during the game, when you score a German cathedral, you receive points for all the completed roads connected to it, some of them maybe even completed in previous turns (and therefore unoccupied at this point). Inns are considered as per the rules.

After the game, any incomplete occupied German cathedral will be scored taking into consideration all the roads connected to it:
- those already completed
- those still incomplete (even those road segments on the German cathedral not connected to another tile)
Inns are also considered as per the rules.

Offline Drodo

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2021, 11:10:30 AM »
OK, so the German Cathedral tile itself scores twice for a road that loops back on itself on the basis of individual tile segments. What about this, contrived, example? Do the "tennis ball" and bridge" tiles score once or twice?

When that long road is scored, it's compossed of 10 tiles so it would give 20 pts, +10 for the inn for 30.

When the cathedral is scored, that road is composed of 13 segments and it contributes 13 points, x2 for 26 with the inn.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 11:19:17 AM by Drodo »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia - German Cathedrals 2nd edition
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2021, 12:51:07 PM »
OK, so the German Cathedral tile itself scores twice for a road that loops back on itself on the basis of individual tile segments. What about this, contrived, example? Do the "tennis ball" and bridge" tiles score once or twice?



When that long road is scored, it's compossed of 10 tiles so it would give 20 pts, +10 for the inn for 30.

When the cathedral is scored, that road is composed of 13 segments and it contributes 13 points, x2 for 26 with the inn.

The long road has 10 tiles, but as its ends twice at the German cathedral tile, those road segments are counted separately. The other tiles are only counted once, no matter if some of them contribute twice to the road.

So, the long road is worth 33 points:
(9 tiles + 2 road segments on cathedral tile) x (1 point for the road + 1 point for the inn + 1 point for the German cathedral) = 11 x 3 = 33 points

The German cathedral is still incomplete, so as Carcassonne93 indicated, it is worth 26 points if scored at the end of the game:

At the end of the game, this German cathedral scores (2+2+11x2) 26 points.

The scoring of the German cathedral worth 26 points (2 + 2 + 22) is as follows:
- Top incomplete road: 2 points ( (1 tile + 1 road segment on cathedral tile) x 1 point = 2 x 1 = 2 points)
- Left completed road: 2 points ( (1 tile + 1 road segment on cathedral tile) x 1 point = 2 x 1 = 2 points)
- Completed long road: 22 points (9 tiles + 2 road segments on cathedral tile) x (1 point for the road + 1 point for the inn) = 11 x 2 = 22 points)

So you always consider tiles, but you count separate road segments on German cathedral tiles. The latter only makes a difference when a road ends more than once at the same German cathedral tile. Most of the time, a road will only end once at a German cathedral, so counting road segments on the German cathedral tile (1 in this case) and counting the tile itself will lead to the same results.


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