Poll

The Abbot - arrangement of the rules:

I prefer the original arrangement by action type (placement vs. scoring)
0 (0%)
I prefer the proposed arrangement that follows the chronological sequence of actions
4 (100%)
I prefer another arrangement (please comment below)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement  (Read 344 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« on: September 19, 2020, 05:18:34 AM »
Dear all,

The people at HiG have made a great effort to arrange the rules of Carcassonne in a way that all actions are arranged in 3 phases happening in chronological order:
1. Placing a tile
2. Placing a meeple
3. Scoring a feature

This works fine most of the time, but some expansions add actions that bend this structure. For example,  you may find scorings happening in phases other than 3. Scoring a feature. This is the case of the abbot, when it is removed and scored early, that happens in phase 2. Placing a meeple.

This may seem irrelevant in a normal game but timing is important when The Abbot is combined with other expansions like The Messages, since the abbot scores in a separate round of scoring than all completed features (for example a completed monastery or garden with an abbot  :o)... But this is a different story (if you want to know about rounds of scoring you may check this post) .

My point is that the rules of The Abbot arrange the actions in a slightly different way. They rename phase 3 to 3. Scoring with the abbot and put together the scoring of a completed monastery/garden happening in phase 3 along with the early scoring of the abbot happening in phase 2.

This is the original arrangement of the rules:


The Abbot (excerpt of original rules)

1. Placing a tile
When placing a tile with a garden, you must place it so that it its edges match the edges of tiles already in play.

2. Placing a meeple
When placing a tile with a monastery or garden, you may place your abbot onto the monastery or onto the garden. You may, of course, place a regular meeple onto the monastery, or other features, such as roads, etc. You may not place a regular meeple onto the garden.

3. Scoring with the abbot
When the monastery or garden occupied by your abbot is surrounded by eight tiles, you score 9 points (just like a regular monastery scoring).

On your turn, you may decide to not place a meeple during the 2. Placing a meeple phase, and may instead return your already-placed abbot to your supply. If you do so, you score immediately as many points as the garden or monastery your abbot occupied is worth at that time, exactly like how monasteries are scored during the final scoring.

Final scoring
During final scoring, incomplete monasteries or gardens occupied by abbots are scored the same way as those occupied by monks.



I was wondering if it would be better to rearrange the rules in the following way to phases match the exact chronological order of actions. IMHO this new arrangement would help reader to understand better the sequence of actions and combine this expansions with others.


The Abbot (proposed arrangement)

1. Placing a tile
When placing a tile with a garden, you must place it so that it its edges match the edges of tiles already in play.

2. Placing a meeple
Placing a meeple or your abbot
When placing a tile with a monastery or a garden, you may place either a normal meeple or your abbot. The normal meeple is placed as usual whereas the abbot must be placed on the monastery or garden you've just placed.

Removing and scoring an abbot
In addition, the abbot has a special property. On your turn, you may decide to not place a meeple during phase 2. Placing a meeple, and may instead return your already-placed abbot to your supply. If you do so, you score immediately as many points as the garden or monastery your abbot occupied is worth at that moment, which corresponds to the value of the feature at the end of the game.

3. Scoring with the abbot
When the monastery or garden occupied by your abbot is surrounded by eight tiles, you score 9 points, as in the basic game. The garden is therefore scored the same as a monastery.

Final scoring
During final scoring, incomplete monasteries or gardens occupied by abbots are scored the same way as monasteries occupied by monks.



What arrangement of the rules do you prefer? All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4802.0
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 05:27:03 AM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2020, 06:09:41 PM »
Well first rules are better for new gamers. For them it's clear.
Second for experienced players which gives to player clear option what to do in playing order.
I prefer second, but for printed rules are maybe first better...

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2020, 01:41:59 PM »
The original rules (Supplemental Rules of the Base Game) and the ones in Big Box 6 are very condensed and the wording can be a bit misleading in English to say the least... (I've seen some funny interpretations around).

The Abbot is one of the most visited pages on WICA, so I see this as a clue of a potential issue I would like to address.

Offline Carcassonne0123

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2020, 01:25:40 AM »
Originally  I voted for the old rules, but after reading through it agian, I realized that proposed arrangment was better. :neutral-meeple:
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 10:15:14 AM by Carcassonne0123 »

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 10:20:09 AM »
"The Abbot is one of the most visited pages on WICA, so I see this as a clue of a potential issue I would like to address."- How can someone found out that? on Wikimedia wikis, this is written at http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=info (the information page), but at WikiCarpedia it is not written (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=info).

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 12:09:23 PM »
We are using Google Analytics to check the number of visitors. The Abbot has been one of the favourites for quite a while but lately, it seems P&D has become the favourite expansion for the last months...

Here you can see the top 6 pages during the last 28 days.

OrderPagesNo. Visited Pages
1/index.php/Main_Page3817
2/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon886
3/index.php/River686
4/index.php/The_Abbot382
5/index.php/Base_game339
6/index.php/The_Farmers295
Last 28 days

I understand the P&D is a somewhat complicated expansion, so a lot of people may be looking for answers... You can also see that The River and The Abbot are also expansions commonly visited. Is it that there are questions not answered in the rulebooks?

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2020, 02:16:42 PM »
Well it will be also interesting statistic how mutch time people spend time on these pages.
Once I was also on Abbot page.
But it was not acount rules, but I want to know, what is this Expansion. I never heard about it.
Then I realized, that it's Abbot from Basic C2 game, nothing less, nothing more. And I left this page ;-)

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2020, 04:05:54 PM »
I would like to find out how many people (devices) have seen a given page.

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2020, 02:23:07 PM »
I prefer the arranged rules. They are much easier to comprehend.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Abbot rules - proposal of new arrangement
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2020, 03:16:23 PM »
We have a similar situation in the following cases:
* C2 Hills & Sheep with flock actions
* C2 Under the Big Top when scoring acrobats
* C2 Count, King and Robber when placing a meeple in the City of Carcassonne


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