Author Topic: Question about the Goldmines  (Read 520 times)

Offline FireDoor

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Question about the Goldmines
« on: August 01, 2020, 03:39:13 PM »
Hello,

We have a question about the deployment of ingots. The rules state "The player then places a gold bar on the tile, and any adjacent tile (including diagonal)". Does this mean that the second ingot can also be placed on a tile that has no incomplete features (meaning that no one will be able to win that ingot)? The rules do not say that the second ingot needs to be on a tile with open features.

Thank you!   :pink-meeple: 

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4745.0

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 03:30:32 AM »
Hi FireDoor!

Welcome to the forum! Hope you enjoy all the stuff available here.

As you mention, the rules do not prevent you from placing an ingot on an adjacent tile with all their features completed. This limitation may be in our heads at first but think that a tile with several features (completed or not) may be involved in the scoring of another feature, for example a monastery or a castle.

This said, you may be interested in placing an ingot on a tile with completed features or with features that no one (even you) can score (impossible to complete or unoccupied) to prevent other players from collecting ingots. Remember that the more ingots you have, the more points they are worth. If you cannot benefit from the ingots, you are allowed to deny this benefit to others.  >:D

So the context and the intention are important and the rules give players a lot of room to explore all these options.

Besides these considerations about benefitting yourself versus hindering others, I'd like to elaborate a bit about the possibilities at hand with the following scenario:



:red-meeple: draws a goldmine tile that would fill the gap and a number of options will be available depending on his intentions besides scoring the city just completed, since a monastery and a city are also completed:



In this case, you can see that the first ingot is placed on a tile where all the features were just completed, so you can see this is not a limitation either. This shouldn't be a surprise.  ;)

>> Scoring the monastery overlapping the completed city

If :red-meeple: would like to score the monastery, he could place the first ingot on the monastery tile (mandatory in any case) and the second on any adjacent tile he may choose:

a) :red-meeple: may choose to place the second ingot on a tile with incomplete features (a city in this case).



b) :red-meeple: may choose to place the second ingot on a tile with a feature that was just completed (the road in this case).



c) :red-meeple: may choose to place the second ingot on a tile with a feature completed on a previous turn (a road in this case).



So as you can see in these three cases, the monastery overlapping the city will allow :red-meeple: to collect ingots no matter the features on those tiles. After placing the ingots :red-meeple: place one of his meeples on the monastery and will score the features as usual and get the two ingots just placed.

>> Scoring the road and the completed city

If :red-meeple: would like to score the road, :red-meeple: will collect the first ingot for sure but the second ingot may stay on the board depending on the location chosen for it.

a) :red-meeple: may choose to place the second ingot on a tile with incomplete features (a city in this case).



The second ingot is not on a tile of the completed city or the completed road, so after placing the meeple on the road, :red-meeple: will score both features but will only collect the ingot on the tile just placed. The second ingot could be collected by any player completing the city on the tile or an adjacent monastery, for example.

b) :red-meeple: may choose to place the second ingot on a tile with a feature that was just completed (the road in this case).



The second ingot is on a tile of the completed road, so after placing the meeple on the road, :red-meeple: will score the city and the road. In this case, :red-meeple: will also collect the two ingots.

c) :red-meeple: may choose to place the second ingot on a tile with a feature completed on a previous turn (a road in this case).



The second ingot is not on a tile of the completed city or the completed road, so after placing the meeple on the road, :red-meeple: will score both features but will only collect the ingot on the tile just placed.

Unless an adjacent monastery is completed, for example, the second ingot will stay on the board until the end of the game.

Hope this helps.  ;D

Cheers!
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

Offline FireDoor

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2020, 09:31:14 AM »
Hi Meepledrone,

This is SOOOO comprehensive, thank you so much! It has clarified our doubt and much more. We like to play the Goldmines as they are a nice way of scoring extra points. We find it a little more luck-based (i.e., based significantly on who draws the special tiles) than, say the trade elements in Inns & Cathedrals. Anyway, thank you so much again!  :blue-meeple:

FireDoor

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2020, 04:26:55 PM »
Hi FireDoor,

I'm glad I could help! ;D

I thought some examples would clarify the whole thing better... In the end all options are open and it is up to the players to decide what to do with the gold ingots: leave them in the open, keep them to themselves or even bury them on purpose.

Enjoy your next games with The Goldmines!  :(y)

Is it the only mini expansion you play?

Cheers!

PS: I think your were referring to the trade goods in Traders & Builders, right?

Offline FireDoor

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2020, 01:40:53 AM »
Hello Meepledrone,

Yes! I was referring to the goods in Traders and Builders.

We play the other mini expansion that come with the big box we bought. My partner does not like the crop circles much.  :orange-meeple:
We do use the messengers, the flying machine, the robbers, the mage and witch, and the ferries - in various combinations with the larger expansions we have. We love that the game can always be made different with different combinations.

Thank you so much!

 :pink-meeple:

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2020, 03:14:03 AM »
My pleasure!

I don't know if this may be of interest for you but the rules in the ZMG Big Box 6 are not a perfect translation from German, so there are some details that were altered in the English rules. Here you are some of them affecting the minis:

* The Messengers:
   - You get a message when you land on a dark space no matter if other players are present (ZMG require that no
scoring figures from other players are present)
   - Message 8 requires you to have the majority in order to score the feature (ZMG state majority does not matter)

* The Robbers:
   - Only the active player and the next player to his/her with no robber on the scoreboard left are allowed to place their robber (ZMG make it possible for all the players)
   - Placing or moving your robber is an optional action (ZMG make it mandatory when placing your robber)

* Crop Circles:
   - Adding a meeple is an optional action (ZMG make it mandatory).
   - The meeple added has to be placed next to another of your meeples on the same tile and feature (ZMG only state you have to add a meeple to the same feature, although the examples show the original intent)

So you can see that some of the rules for the minis have been altered a bit. You may fing more info on these little changes here (check the two rightmost columns for C2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes

Offline FireDoor

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2020, 03:02:05 PM »
Oh this is useful to know, thank you! I will double check, but I think that the rule book I have (in Italian) is consistent with the rules you have listed.

May I also ask a question about the Mage and Witch? I see from the rules that they can be placed on incomplete road or cities. So here is the question: if I place a tile that now completes a road or city can I place the mage or witch on that road or city before it is scored in the same turn? The reason for asking is that in the basic rules one can place a meple on a feature that is now being completed (with the placement of that tile) and then score. So, I wondered if the same applies to the mage and witch?

 :pink-meeple:

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2020, 03:32:31 PM »
That sounds awesome. :(y)

I haven't checked the Italian rulebooks but I can tell you the ones in Spanish by Devir are far more faithful to their German counterparts than the English ones.

Regarding your question about Mage & Witch, as soon as you place the tile, the road or city would be completed. This means that neither the Mage nor the Witch may be placed on the feature as it isn't incomplete anymore.

The same happens to tiles with a flying machine or a magic portal: if the tile just placed completes a feature, you cannot deploy a meeple to it via the magic portal (even if unoccupied) or the flying machine on the tile. In this case, you could only use direct placement onto the feature if unoccupied.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 03:38:04 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline FireDoor

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2020, 05:58:28 AM »
Hi Mepledrone,

Thank you! This is very clear and solves our doubt. The source of my confusion was that I did not realise that the base rule for direct placement does not state that the feature has to be incomplete to be able to place a meple on it. It has to be unoccupied.

By contrast, with mage and witch, flying machines, and magic portal, placement only works with incomplete features.

All clear.

Thank you so much again!

=)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Question about the Goldmines
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2020, 06:17:39 AM »
Happy to help!

Enjoy your games with these expansions and others too! ;D


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