Poll

When converted into a castle, the fairy assigned to a meeple in a small city...

...stays on the tile and breaks its assignment to the meeple
0 (0%)
...moves along with the meeple to the castle
4 (100%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies  (Read 316 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies
« on: July 10, 2020, 11:20:39 PM »
Dear all,

Welcome to this new installment of Controversial interactions... Let's have some fun.

Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and  fairies

Some of you may know the fairy was not always welcome in castles. Big Box 3 stated “A player can place the fairy in a castle. If it is there during the castle scoring, it scores 3 points for the player.”

However, according to some official clarifications later, that rule is incorrect. The fairy could be placed in a castle, as it should only be placed on features on a discrete tile.

Then C2 reverted this ruling and now allows you to place the fairy next to a meeple in a castle. So fairies are welcome in castles again. Fine!

And you will ask at this point, what is this guy trying to sell us with all this preamble?

Well, here is the point. Check the following scenario:



1. :orange-meeple: places a semi-circular city and deploys a meeple
2. In a later turn, :orange-meeple: completes the small city...
3. ...and assigns the fairy to their meeple.

At this point, :orange-meeple: decides to convert the small city into a castle. Which is the right action?

4a. The fairy stays on the tile and only the meeple moves to the castle
4b. The fairy moves along with the meeple to the castle

I haven't found any clarifications about this case yet. But we know for certain that the fairy can be placed on a castle in C2 (this is the reason for my ramblings above ;)).

Any thoughts? What would you do and why?

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4724.0
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:26:17 PM by Meepledrone »
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Offline Halfling

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Re: Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2020, 11:57:11 PM »
I would assume the fairy remains on the tile upon which she/it is placed. Stopping the Dragon from crossing that tile.  Seems unfair to allow the fairy to protect both tiles that the castle straddles.

Can the Dragon remove the meeple by going on the other tile that the castle straddles?

Does the player receive a point from the fairy upon his/her next turn if the fairy has remained in-situ?

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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 12:09:16 AM »
If the fairy is placed in a castle, it does not protect any tiles (the fairy is not an any particular tile at this point). The castle needs no protection from the dragon either.

The fairy would provide points to the meeple it is assigned to.

The previous two options work differently in this case:
4a. If the fairy stays on the tile, it would be "detached" from the the meeple in the castle, so no bonus points for the :orange-meeple: meeple.
4b. If the fairy moves along with the meeple into the castle, the :orange-meeple: meeple would get the bonus points as usual when scoring the castle.

EDIT: Added explicit reference to the given example.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 02:51:09 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Snowmax

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Re: Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 01:44:21 AM »
Dear all,

Welcome to this new installment of Controversial interactions... Let's have some fun.

Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and  fairies

Some of you may know the fairy was not always welcome in castles. Big Box 3 stated “A player can place the fairy in a castle. If it is there during the castle scoring, it scores 3 points for the player.”

However, according to some official clarifications later, that rule is incorrect. The fairy could be placed in a castle, as it should only be placed on features on a discrete tile.

Then C2 reverted this ruling and now allows you to place the fairy next to a meeple in a castle. So fairies are welcome in castles again. Fine!

And you will ask at this point, what is this guy trying to sell us with all this preamble?

Well, here is the point. Check the following scenario:



1. :orange-meeple: places a semi-circular city and deploys a meeple
2. In a later turn, :orange-meeple: completes the small city...
3. ...and assigns the fairy to their meeple.

At this point, :orange-meeple: decides to convert the small city into a castle. Which is the right action?

4a. The fairy stays on the tile and only the meeple moves to the castle
4b. The fairy moves along with the meeple to the castle

I haven't found any clarifications about this case yet. But we know for certain that the fairy can be placed on a castle in C2 (this is the reason for my ramblings above ;)).

Any thoughts? What would you do and why?

This is a interesting interaction! It’s a tough scenario because there are arguments either way. I’d look at each of the three fairy’s benefits in turn

For the purpose of the bonus 1 point or the bonus 3, it makes no difference which of 4a or 4b you use does it not? Am I correct in saying that, even though the fairy protects other meeple on a tile, the bonus points are only scored by the meeple it is “assigned” to? (With the exception of the bonus 1!point for acrobats?). So whether or not it is moved is irrelevant here.

Protection from the dragon is where it gets interesting I suppose... the meeple in the castle is already protected from the dragon by dint of it being in the castle. However does the fairy being “in” the castle prevent the dragon from entering either of the two tiles involved? (E.g. to protect a phantom or wagon or other figure placed on another feature by portal or flier). Thematically I suppose the answer to this would be no. (The fairy is assigned to the follower, who then becomes a lord/ lady and it follow them there. The dragon cannot penetrate the castle walls but equally the fairy’s magic cannot either?).

I’d lean towards the fairy moving with the lord in the scenario you describe as that’s where it would be if you’d assigned the fairy after placing your castle?


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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 03:09:06 AM »
This is a interesting interaction! It’s a tough scenario because there are arguments either way. I’d look at each of the three fairy’s benefits in turn

He he he!  >:D

For the purpose of the bonus 1 point or the bonus 3, it makes no difference which of 4a or 4b you use does it not? Am I correct in saying that, even though the fairy protects other meeple on a tile, the bonus points are only scored by the meeple it is “assigned” to? (With the exception of the bonus 1!point for acrobats?). So whether or not it is moved is irrelevant here.

There is a slight difference between 4a and 4b in this regard as I commented earlier:

The fairy would provide points to the meeple it is assigned to.

The previous two options work differently in this case:
4a. If the fairy stays on the tile, it would be "detached" from the the meeple in the castle, so no bonus points for the :orange-meeple: meeple.
4b. If the fairy moves along with the meeple into the castle, the :orange-meeple: meeple would get the bonus points as usual when scoring the castle.

EDIT: Added explicit reference to the given example.

So, if the fairy stays on the tile, the assignment is released and  :orange-meeple: will not receive any fairy bonus points unless the fairy is re-assigned to the meeple and moved to the castle.

Protection from the dragon is where it gets interesting I suppose... the meeple in the castle is already protected from the dragon by dint of it being in the castle. However does the fairy being “in” the castle prevent the dragon from entering either of the two tiles involved? (E.g. to protect a phantom or wagon or other figure placed on another feature by portal or flier). Thematically I suppose the answer to this would be no. (The fairy is assigned to the follower, who then becomes a lord/ lady and it follow them there. The dragon cannot penetrate the castle walls but equally the fairy’s magic cannot either?).

The protection works as follows:
* 4a. The fairy would protect the tile where it stays from the dragon except the castle portion. The castle is protected by itself, since it is not located on a particular tile.
* 4b. The fairy protection is removed from the tile. Both tiles overlapped by the castle are unprotected from the dragon. The protected are is now limited to the castle, where it is actually not needed, as the castle it protected from the dragon by definition.

I’d lean towards the fairy moving with the lord in the scenario you describe as that’s where it would be if you’d assigned the fairy after placing your castle?


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Good! Didn't you participate in the poll?

Offline tp10053

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Re: Controversial Interactions #02 - Castles and fairies
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2020, 07:25:00 AM »
Since the fairy is placed next to a meeple, it should move into the castle along with it. The fact that fairy is usually on a discrete tile is merely a consequence of the "fairy friend" being on that tile, so if "fairy friend" happens to be not on specific tile, fairy should be as well. I don't think it should be forcibly separated from its meeple just because it moved, that would waste your action of lacing the fairy i the first place.

More interesting follow up question would then be, does fairy now protect both tiles? I think the answer can be reverse engineered from the Plague (of all things >:D) which abides by the same rules as the Dragon, (only affects discrete tiles) but can affect multiple tiles at once.
If we look at features that are located on multiple tiles (castle, school, Carcassonne), even if you swarm all of the tiles that feature is situated on, the plague still does not affect it. Therefore, inversely, a fairy located on "multiple tiles" should not protect them either.

So the ansewer should be that the fairy will be moved into the castle along with its meeple, but it will not protect any tiles. :white-meeple:
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 07:27:25 AM by tp10053 »


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