Author Topic: implications of "Order of Play"  (Read 313 times)

Offline cicerunner

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implications of "Order of Play"
« on: April 16, 2020, 02:24:57 PM »
I'm trying to get it clear in my mind, just how my relatively small collection of expansions interact with each other.
To help, I've been using the "Order of Play" generator at WikiCarpedia ...

Quote
2. Placing a meeple

...

Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1)

...

(c) Deploy one of your other figures.
  • Pig to a field containing one of your meeples
  • Builder to a city or road containing one of your meeples
(d) Deploy the barn. The field will be scored as a normal feature in Step 3B.
(e) Perform a special action
  • Remove a figure from anywhere in the playing area if the festival symbol was on the played tile
  • Remove your abbot and score its points

Essentially I just want to confirm that it says what I think it does - that if I play a festival tile and choose to remove a (maybe trapped) meeple, I can't also remove my abbot? (And vice versa.)

If so, I think I've been playing incorrectly. I've been applying the simple logic of, "If you don't place a meeple, you are allowed to remove a meeple. If you don't place a meeple you can remove and score an abbot." On the rare occasions it comes up I've been treating it as permissible to do both.

So, once you've said "Yes, that's right. You can't. You've been doing it wrong!" I'll ask something else.

Since these removal(s) are described in (2) Placing A Meeple, does this mean that any meeple removed won't be around to be counted by the time we reach (3) Scoring a Feature?  Again, if that's the case, I think I have been scoring incorrectly. I have been leaving the Abbot in place and hence counting it when calculating a meeple scoring Watchtower at (3) and then removing it and claiming my 'incomplete' monastery points. But he - or any meeple removed via a Festival tile - should be removed before (3) it seems?

I've been doing that wrong too?


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4602.0
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 02:26:46 PM by cicerunner »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: implications of "Order of Play"
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 03:28:35 PM »
I'm trying to get it clear in my mind, just how my relatively small collection of expansions interact with each other.
To help, I've been using the "Order of Play" generator at WikiCarpedia ...

Quote
2. Placing a meeple

...

Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1)

...

(c) Deploy one of your other figures.
  • Pig to a field containing one of your meeples
  • Builder to a city or road containing one of your meeples
(d) Deploy the barn. The field will be scored as a normal feature in Step 3B.
(e) Perform a special action
  • Remove a figure from anywhere in the playing area if the festival symbol was on the played tile
  • Remove your abbot and score its points

Essentially I just want to confirm that it says what I think it does - that if I play a festival tile and choose to remove a (maybe trapped) meeple, I can't also remove my abbot? (And vice versa.)

Yeso all the actions in Step 2B-1 are mutually exclusive, including removing an abbot and removing a meeple with a festival tile.

After that you may place a phantom (one of the actions in Step 2B-2) and and perform any actions applicable in Step 2C related to moving ferries, shepherd actions or fruit actions.

If so, I think I've been playing incorrectly. I've been applying the simple logic of, "If you don't place a meeple, you are allowed to remove a meeple. If you don't place a meeple you can remove and score an abbot." On the rare occasions it comes up I've been treating it as permissible to do both.

Unforgivable... I would add.  ;)

So, once you've said "Yes, that's right. You can't. You've been doing it wrong!" I'll ask something else.

Since these removal(s) are described in (2) Placing A Meeple, does this mean that any meeple removed won't be around to be counted by the time we reach (3) Scoring a Feature?  Again, if that's the case, I think I have been scoring incorrectly. I have been leaving the Abbot in place and hence counting it when calculating a meeple scoring Watchtower at (3) and then removing it and claiming my 'incomplete' monastery points. But he - or any meeple removed via a Festival tile - should be removed before (3) it seems?

I've been doing that wrong too?

Yes, you remove the meeple in Step 2B-1 so it doesn't count for any scoring in 3. Scoring a meeple based on meeples like Watchtowers or the Big Top. The meeple could not be considered either for Messages at the end of round of scoring #2, ant the end of Step 2C.

These are the little epiphanies you go through when perusing the Order of Play or the Scoring Reference pages and you can see the whole picture in perspective. Those details that fall into place and then you can hear the gears in your head turning all of a sudden.

Lovely, huh?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 03:31:30 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline cicerunner

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Re: implications of "Order of Play"
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2020, 11:33:41 PM »
Thanks so much for such a careful and thorough response MeepleDrone. As ever.

A suggestion for a tiny edit?
Change the word "a" in bold under (e) to "one". For clarity and to be consistent with "one" under (c).
Quote
(c) Deploy one of your other figures.
  • Pig to a field containing one of your meeples
  • Builder to a city or road containing one of your meeples
...
(e) Perform a special action
  • Remove a figure from anywhere in the playing area if the festival symbol was on the played tile
  • Remove your abbot and score its points

Offline cicerunner

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Re: implications of "Order of Play"
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 11:39:46 PM »
On a related point re the Order Of Play and Scoring Reference pages. Unless I'm missing something, it's not possible to make your expansion selections on one of these pages and then switch to the other retaining your selections. Do you agree it would be useful if this were possible?

Also it would be useful if the URLs for these pages included the expansions selected so that a bookmark could be saved for a specific combination of expansions. (It occurs to me that this might be part of the solution to my first suggestion.)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 11:43:37 PM by cicerunner »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: implications of "Order of Play"
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 04:01:47 AM »
Thanks so much for such a careful and thorough response MeepleDrone. As ever.

A suggestion for a tiny edit?
Change the word "a" in bold under (e) to "one". For clarity and to be consistent with "one" under (c).
Quote
(c) Deploy one of your other figures.
  • Pig to a field containing one of your meeples
  • Builder to a city or road containing one of your meeples
...
(e) Perform a special action
  • Remove a figure from anywhere in the playing area if the festival symbol was on the played tile
  • Remove your abbot and score its points

Done!

Thanks for the suggestion.  ;D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: implications of "Order of Play"
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2020, 05:34:55 AM »
On a related point re the Order Of Play and Scoring Reference pages. Unless I'm missing something, it's not possible to make your expansion selections on one of these pages and then switch to the other retaining your selections. Do you agree it would be useful if this were possible?

You already have this in a certain way. There are three sets of pages (one per edition: C1, C2 and WE) which share the same settings via cookies, so after making a selection in one of the expansion selectors all the other pages for the same edition share the same settings. These cookies are not persistent due to security issues.

Also it would be useful if the URLs for these pages included the expansions selected so that a bookmark could be saved for a specific combination of expansions. (It occurs to me that this might be part of the solution to my first suggestion.)

I've been twisting MediaWiki's engine to inject info as it needs extensions to accept custom URL parameters. I'll give it a thought again.

My original idea was to create new custom entry for the quick selector dropdown list that you could import and export. But this would require persistent cookies... if we would like to keep the info in the browser...


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