Author Topic: Questions  (Read 24517 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #315 on: June 27, 2020, 01:18:08 PM »
Thank you very much!!!

Our pleasure!

This has been a collective effort ;D


Moreover, road networks with labyrinths are also scored as one single feature where the whole road network is one large road with several branches.

Being one single feature, the whole road network with labyrinth tiles will be affected by the Solovei Razboynik tile.


[232.] One more question please:
Let's say "a labyrinth tiles work like "fuzzy" 4-legged roundabouts with the advanced variant rules" and Player adds a "solovey-razboinik" to an unoccupied labyrinth exit as shown in the picture. Do All players have to move their figures to the tile "Solovey" or only black player have to move the meeple on the right? Then all players must move them onto the tile "Solovey" when labyrinth will be complited.

PS: sorry for my bad English.



Picture a Labyrinth tile like a Spiel 18 tile, they are the same except for the meeple placement rules in the advanced variant rules.



If you replace the labyrinth tile in the image by the Spiel 18 tile, all the meeples on the road network would be trapped by the Solovei Razboynik tile without any doubt. The same will happen with the Labyrinth tile.

Placement rules have nothing to do with the integrity of a feature. This is what happens in this case. No matter how you place the meeples on the road network with the labyrinth or a plain roundabout, it is still one single road with several branches.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 01:22:20 PM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

Offline Nazarentsy

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Re: Questions
« Reply #316 on: June 29, 2020, 09:05:40 AM »


Moreover, road networks with labyrinths are also scored as one single feature where the whole road network is one large road with several branches.

Being one single feature, the whole road network with labyrinth tiles will be affected by the Solovei Razboynik tile.

Picture a Labyrinth tile like a Spiel 18 tile, they are the same except for the meeple placement rules in the advanced variant rules.



If you replace the labyrinth tile in the image by the Spiel 18 tile, all the meeples on the road network would be trapped by the Solovei Razboynik tile without any doubt. The same will happen with the Labyrinth tile.

Placement rules have nothing to do with the integrity of a feature. This is what happens in this case. No matter how you place the meeples on the road network with the labyrinth or a plain roundabout, it is still one single road with several branches.

Thank you very much!

And one more question, please :D

Example of scoring castles: BLUE completes his city and scores 0 points, because only mayor is situated in this city and city have no pennants . As a segment of the city lies on a tile adjacent to the castle, and it is the first structure to be completed since the castle was built, RED also receives 0 points. I am right?

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #317 on: June 29, 2020, 09:17:14 AM »
You are not right. If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive the points for that city. The castles can score unoccupied features. That means that the meeples from the features scored by castles are ignored.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #318 on: June 29, 2020, 11:51:01 AM »

Thank you very much!

And one more question, please :D

No problem. Happy to help!  ;D

[233.] Example of scoring castles: BLUE completes his city and scores 0 points, because only mayor is situated in this city and city have no pennants . As a segment of the city lies on a tile adjacent to the castle, and it is the first structure to be completed since the castle was built, RED also receives 0 points. I am right?

You are not right. If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive the points for that city. The castles can score unoccupied features. That means that the meeples from the features scored by castles are ignored.

As Carcassonne93 said, Red will score for the castle the full primary points for the city occupied by the Blue's mayor. Even if Blue scores 0 points for it because of the mayor.

The mayor and the castle introduce some subtleties during scoring: they decouple the amount of points a feature is worth from the points scored by the player.

Let's imagine castle with a mayor and a completed city with a mayor in the castle fief. The completion of the city will trigger the castle scoring as well:
* The completed city is worth X points.
* The castle neighboring the completed city is then worth X points too (even if the city was unoccupied)
* The mayor in the completed city (with no coats of arms) will score 0 points, no matter the city is worth X points.
* The mayor in the completed castle (no coats of arms either) will score 0 points, no matter the castle is worth X points.

There is more to it because castles can only receive points related to the feature itself. Any bonus associated to any figures placed in the feature triggering the castle scoring cannot be considered.

For example, if the fairy was assigned to the mayor in the city with no coats of arms, you would have the following scenario:

* The completed city is worth X points. The 3-point fairy bonus only affect the mayor, not the city.
* The castle neighboring the completed city is then worth X points too (even if the city was unoccupied). The 3-point fairy bonus only affect the mayor in the city, not the city and therfore not the castle.
* The mayor in the completed city (with no coats of arms) will score 0 points, no matter the city is worth X points, but it would score 3 bonus points for the fairy.
* The mayor in the completed castle (no coats of arms either) will score 0 points, no matter the castle is worth X points.

The Advent Calendar Quiz 2019 included a question exploring these concepts:

Question #12: If you love castles, this is the right time to prove it to Santa Claus. After completing the city, what will be the scoring for each player? Think carefully!



You can find the answer here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65465#msg65465

Have fun!  ;D

Offline Nazarentsy

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Re: Questions
« Reply #319 on: July 04, 2020, 10:27:59 AM »
Thanks for the detailed answer!


There is more to it because castles can only receive points related to the feature itself. Any bonus associated to any figures placed in the feature triggering the castle scoring cannot be considered.


What about little buildings and bonuses of German castle? Does not castles receive points of them? Teacher too?

And question about robbers (1 edition)

“When a player draws a tile with a robber symbol, he or she plays it according to normal rules. Then he or she may place a follower.
The player may immediately place his or her robber figure on the scoreboard”.

Do I understand correctly that I can first place a follower and then a robber and I can first place a robber and then a follower?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #320 on: July 04, 2020, 01:36:41 PM »
Thanks for the detailed answer!

You are welcome!  ;D


There is more to it because castles can only receive points related to the feature itself. Any bonus associated to any figures placed in the feature triggering the castle scoring cannot be considered.


[234.] What about little buildings and bonuses of German castle? Does not castles receive points of them? Teacher too?

The German castle bonus and little building bonus are part of feature scoring, so the will be also scored by a neighboring castle. The Teacher points are a figure-related bonus not associated to the feature itself, so those points are not "visible" to a castle.

As a summary, a castle will be able to get the points associated to the scoring of a feature (referred to as primary feature scoring). Here you can see a listing with all the elements considered part of the primary feature scoring as of today:

* Road: feature tiles + German cathedrals + inns + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles +  bathhouses + labyrinths, taking into account scoring tiles

* Cities: feature tiles + Cathars / siege / besiegers + cathedrals + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + Darmstadtium, taking into account scoring tiles

* Monastic buildings: feature and adjacent tiles + vineyards + little buildings, taking into account scoring tiles
  - Note: A monastic building is any of the following features (with monks or heretics): monastery, abbey, shrine, German monastery, Dutch & Belgian monastery, Japanese building, Darmstadt church. Meeples placed as abbots per se cannot trigger a castle scoring, since the feature is not completed even if surrounded.

* Fields with barn(s): completed cities / castles + pig + pig-herd + Cathars / siege / besiegers + little buildings

* Baba Yaga's hut: feature tile + little buildings

* Gardens: feature and adjacent tiles + little buildings

* German castles: feature and adjacent tiles + little buildings

* German cathedrals: roads tiles and road segments on German cathedral tiles + inns + little buildings

As you can see, other bonuses associated to figures/tokens are not considered, since they are not part of the primary feature score (the player receiving the bonus may not be the one(s) with the majority, that is, the one(s) scoring the feature):
* Gingerbread Man for a completed city
* Watchtowers
* Tollhouses
* Darmstadt Church bonus
* Fairy
* Ringmasters
* Markets of Leipzig
* Teacher

Some may raise their hand about Markets of Leipzig, for example, when thinking of the Wainwirghts quarter bonus. I have to stress here that the meeple in the city of Leipzig is the one granting you the bonus under certain circumstances. Remember that when sending your only meeple on a road to Leipzig, you may score 0 points for the road but you may get the Wainwrights quarter bonus for the road you couldn't score if you send your meeple to that quarter... So it is a bonus not linked direct to the feature scoring. 

You can revisit the clarifications about this point here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2

And you can find a full detail of the scoring information per feature (and turn sequence step) here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence


[235.] And question about robbers (1 edition)

“When a player draws a tile with a robber symbol, he or she plays it according to normal rules. Then he or she may place a follower.
The player may immediately place his or her robber figure on the scoreboard”.

Do I understand correctly that I can first place a follower and then a robber and I can first place a robber and then a follower?

The sequence is the same as for C2:

“When a player draws a tile with a robber symbol, he or she plays it according to normal rules. The player may immediately place his or her robber figure on the scoreboard. Then he or she may place a follower.”

I checked the C1 rules for the Robbers and it seems they were not correctly transcribed form the CAR.

I just corrected the rules. Thanks for the heads-up.

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #321 on: July 04, 2020, 02:19:50 PM »
Quote
German cathedrals: roads tiles and road segments on German cathedral tiles + inns + little buildings
German castles?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #322 on: July 04, 2020, 03:32:23 PM »
Quote
[236.] German cathedrals: roads tiles and road segments on German cathedral tiles + inns + little buildings
German castles?

The German Cathedrals rules describe two types of scoring:
1. Roads with German cathedrals, where roads get extra points during the game when ending at a German cathedral and also dissociate road segments on German cathedral tiles, what is a weird thing when combining these cathedrals with other expansions.
2. German cathedrals, that score during the game and after the game (if incomplete). In this case, German cathedrals score per road tile (considering inns, if any) but the full road scoring is not considered. Otherwise, German cathedrals would consider the road points including the German cathedral bonus and this is not the case.

That's why case #2 does not consider German castles. German cathedrals do not fully score the roads connected to them. They just consider tiles and inns. German cathedrals at the end of the game consider tiles in both incomplete and completed roads connected to them. So, again, it is not a regular road scoring.

Note: Little buildings are considered as they affect all the features being scored on the tiles they occupy.

You can revisit the rules for the German cathedrals here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Cathedrals_in_Germany_(1st_edition)

Since the wording for the scoring of the German cathedrals may be a bit misleading, plase have a look to the table included in this clarifications to get a general idea:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Cathedrals_in_Germany_(1st_edition)#cite_note-german-cathedral-scoring-4

As a final note, you can have a look at this "riddles" by Kettlefish, where you can clearly see that German castles do not consider German castles in their scoring. Conversely, roads connected to German castles and German cathedrals consider these bonus during the game.
* German Cathedrals (feature completion):
   - Enunciation: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37680#msg37680
   - Solucion: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37695#msg37695
* German Cathedrals (after the game):
   - Enunciation: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37715#msg37715
   - Solution: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37723#msg37723

EDIT: Added links to riddles (quizzes)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 03:44:05 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #323 on: July 07, 2020, 04:24:16 AM »
What happens if in a small city there are 1 red normal meeple and 1 blue normal meeple, and the red player wants to convert the city into a castle and the blue player wants to score it?

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Questions
« Reply #324 on: July 07, 2020, 11:33:22 AM »
So situation when second meeple was added to unclosed city by Flier?

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #325 on: July 07, 2020, 01:16:32 PM »
Quote
So situation when second meeple was added to unclosed city by Flier?
Yes.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #326 on: July 07, 2020, 01:40:11 PM »
Quote
So situation when second meeple was added to unclosed city by Flier?
Yes.

Just a couple of comments...

You can lead to this scenario by deploying meeples from the castle district in Carcassonne:

1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: completes the small city started by :red-meeple: and redeploys one of his meeples from the castle district in Carcassonne.
3. :red-meeple: wants to convert the city into a castle but :blue-meeple: wants to score it.


Using a flier would require a different sequence:

1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city and wants to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: wants to score it.

There is a little caveat with the flier and the magic portal. They cannot deploy a meeple to a feature completed by the tile with the flying machine/magic portal. So in this case, the flying machine can only land a meeple on the first tile of a small city.

Besides, there are no flying machine tiles with city segments. They only have road segments.

EDIT: The first scenario above cannot happen if :red-meeple: declares he/she will convert the small city into a castle. At this point, since no scoring takes place, no meeples can be deployed from the city of Carcassonne.

Please check the Order of Play: the decision to convert a city to a castle happens before any scoring takes place and therefore before the redeployment of meeples from the city of Carcassonne.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 03:33:30 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #327 on: July 07, 2020, 02:26:39 PM »
What happens if this city will become a small city (and red wants to covert into a castle, but blue wants to score it)?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #328 on: July 07, 2020, 02:38:56 PM »
[237.] What happens if in a small city there are 1 red normal meeple and 1 blue normal meeple, and the red player wants to convert the city into a castle and the blue player wants to score it?

I haven't found any particular rule or clarification for this case. However, it seems there is no issue in complying with both "actions":
* Blue may score 4 points for the city and remove their meeple.
* Red may then convert the city into a castle and move their meeple on top of the castle.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #329 on: July 07, 2020, 02:41:03 PM »
[237.b] What happens if this city will become a small city (and red wants to covert into a castle, but blue wants to score it)?




The answer would be the same as for question [237.]

EDIT: Pushing the rules to their limits, in this case, we have the possibility of deploying meeples from the city of Carcassonne if one of the players already present in the city declares he/she wants to score the city... I think will explore all this in the following question  ;)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 03:39:04 PM by Meepledrone »


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